Street parking (yet again)

Glen

What does your local governing jurisdiction and code say regarding inoperable cars, where they can be parked, worked on, etc?

I believe, with a few exceptions I have heard of around the country, your documents cannot address or restrict what takes place on public streets. What takes place on lawns is another matter as the lawn is generally private property. Your CC&Rs can address what takes place on the lawns.

The main issue is , does anything in that statement say you can not park a car on the side of the road.

and per first post , its not a gated community

Bill , All laws i have seen does not say "yes you can " nor does it say "no you cant" how ever it is very well worded to ignore both the yes you can or no you cant.

for instance it has this .

Except as otherwise provided in this section, every vehicle stopped or parked upon a roadway where there are adjacent curbs shall be so stopped or parked with the right-hand wheels of the vehicle parallel to and within eighteen inches (18") of the right-hand curb.

now that line to me is saying if you are parked on the side of road then you must do this.. but its not saying you can? or is it?

Glen, I'm afraid I do not understand the point of your most recent post.

What is the difference between must and can in the scenario you described? If you are parking on the street which falls under the jurisdiction of that sentence, you must park within 18" of the curb (and observe the other language) but you can park less than 18" of the curb if you wish.

Perhaps it would help if you would describe the underlying issue.

I guess what I am trying to ask. Is it a city right to be able to park on the street. can the HOA take that right away? Is it not a city right but the city tells you how to park on street if you have the right to park on street.

Glen

It is my understanding that an HOA's rles can be tougher than the city rules as people signed an agreement (the Covenants) agreeing to be.

Street parking is a classic case. Our streets are public and our town allows for overnight street parking. Our Covenants say no overnight parking on our streets. If we called the town, they would say an HOA issue, not ours. We can fine owners for overnight parking. We cannot fine non-owners for overnight parking. I expect we could tow owners but not a road I care to go down.

Thanks tim, So it looks like HOA can add rules and regulations to parking on public street. i assume this is due to the city never saying you can or can not. but just saying if you do. our hoa wants to change it so we can not park on rule, just wanted to make sure its even allowed before going to next step.

We have a "Code of Conduct" section, instead of writing new rules to CCRs could we not just define storage, and in-operable there? code of conduct takes 51% at the meeting to pass. If say, we define any more then 24 hours is considered stored.

don't get me wrong i am against this. as it would be near impossible to prove a car has not moved in 24 hours. but i am more concerned as to if i can define the current rule in the CCR in the code of conduct.

So something like this would not work?

Current Covenants
Vehicles. No automobiles which are inoperable or being stored shall be repeatedly parked, kept, repaired or maintained on the street or lawn of any lot.

Added Cod of Conduct (vote to add this)
Definitions
Inoperable - can not be started
Stored - not moved in over 24 hours
repeatedly - More then 3 times in 1 week

Of course these would not be the exact definitions, but you get the point. we keep the covenants as it is, and just add definitions to the COC to define the current wording?

Glenn

If the vehicle is registered and insured and legally parked who is to decide if inoperable?
Also what if legal, but the owner is out of town for a month so the vehicle has not been moved for a month?

Glen,

No, you have what you have.

I believe your interpretation is inaccurate.

I am going to disagree with those who believe the HOA can publish guidelines regarding what takes place on public streets and sidewalks in an association. As I remarked earlier, the HOA has no jurisdiction over the public streets and sidewalks, only the local political entity (city, town, village, borough, county, or whatever) can mandate anything from parking to bicycle riding to playing games to chalk drawing on either surface.

The HOA covenants can only address activities, buildings, etc. which are on or within the boundaries of association common property or private property with deed language which makes the private property part of the HOA. It matters not whether the individual is an owner in the association or a visitor.

For example, the HOA can make no rules regarding speed limits on public streets contained within the association, only the local governing authority can do that. The same holds for playing baseball in the street, drawing on the sidewalk with chalk, or any other activity. Nor can it specify women walking on the sidewalk cannot obscure their faces, or that men must wear baseball caps, or that children cannot wear shorts, or, to go to an extreme, that motorcycles cannot be ridden on the public streets or that trick or treaters cannot walk on the sidewalks.

I have read of one court ruling, in Maryland I believe, which did somehow empower the HOA to make rules regarding public streets. I have not read the ruling; I only recall reading it on a forum such as this.

As the Board President of the sub-association in which we reside, we had a long conversation with our attorney about enforcing language in the covenants regarding restrictions on public street and sidewalk activities when the gates were removed and the streets were dedicated to the city. His guidance was to forget about every bit of language in the documents which placed restrictions on the streets and sidewalks, only the city had jurisdiction and authority to do so after the streets and sidewalks were no longer private. He told us he would not defend the association should a lawsuit ensue if compliance activities were attempted on parking and other activities on public streets and sidewalks.

Let's assume you can creatively interpret your documents to uphold a ban on street parking. How do you plan to enforce it? How will you know what car belongs to what owner? Who is going to patrol the streets 24/7 to ticket vehicles? Do you think a towing company will tow from a public street at the request of an HOA? Are you willing to take it to court if owners ignore violation letters? Can your Association afford to go to court over every parked car?

Glen

I am concerned that you (or others) are attempting to read into your Covenants something that is not there.

We have parking turnouts along several of our streets. Recently a neighbor complained a truck had been parked there for over a month. When I examined the vehicle it is properly registered, appears operable, in good shape, and is legally parked. I told the neighbor based on that, we can do nothing about it.

You are facing a $hit show if you try to remove a vehicle without explicit proof.

Glen,

In my laypersons opinion, based on the language of your CC&Rs and my research, your Association can prohibit inoperable vehicle from parking on the public street. Your Association can not prohibit operational vehicles from parking there. The only way you can prevent an operational vehicle from parking there is if it's being stored. Of course, that term is ambiguous.

I do encourage your Association to define inoperable.
I also encourage your Association to define stored.

Here are some definitions:

inoperable from Merriam Webster
inoperable from Cambridge Dictionary
inoperable CA statute on vehicles

stored dictionary.com

Option:

petition the city/county for specific restrictions on the street. If the streets are narrow, safety concerns on the ability of emergency vehicles to navigate the streets might be an argument the city/county would listen to.

Tim, thank you for the links, especially the one for the HOA in Austin.

I am familiar with Attorney Cagle, he is the author of a handy reference guide for HOA and Condominium associations in Texas. His explanation of the differences between Chapters 209 of the Property Code which pertains (mostly) to HOAs and Chapters 81 and 82 which pertain to condominiums has been especially helpful as we manage properties which fall under all 3 chapters.

I read the posted comments below Cagle's opinion regarding on-street parking and the rebuttals, especially those from an owner in the subject Association who appears to also be an attorney. Her points are well taken. I am not qualified to opine as to which attorney is the more correct or likely to prevail.

There is a term I have seen used by those on one side of the climate change "debate" (and, I'm not taking sides on the subject although I am trained in meteorology and climatology), that term is "settled science". Others do not so believe.

Absent any rulings in Texas on the subject I believe a variation on the term "settled science" is applicable here; that variation would state the ability, or lack thereof, of a POA to create rules regarding public streets and sidewalks is not "settled law", at least not at present in Texas.

Thank you again for the research and the links.

This does have me asking a question. I live in Virginia. My street is public. With COVID, obviously we are all home more, and my kids have to park on the street, because not everyone can fit in the driveway. Most of the neighborhood has 3 car garages, but we don't. So can an HOA prevent us from parking on the street?

Fines, paperwork, liens etc. I have seen the actual cost end up being two to 3 times the original fine amount especially if I have to take my valuable time and get things done. That will be $150 per hour plus expenses and I warn you, my expenses are a bytch......LOL

I was only referring to the parking law that was quoted.

Good point. I can do that. I re-activated the old thread to keep the discussion together, but that's a good reason not to. John made some points, but the issue is that each state has different rules. For example, in Virginia, no HOA can actually enforce parking restrictions on public roads, other than to fine. And the fine is governed by legislature to not exceed $900. So in Virginia, you can't tow the car for example. That's a state-specific restriction. South Carolina may be different. In any case, I'll start a new thread (but still read what everyone has put so far).

thank you all!