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GuillermoD (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Hi everyone, my question is:
My HOA board has been spending on Christmas lights consistently every year for the past 7-8 years. They started by spending a small amount $500 the first year, then started to climb progressively and now we are at $11,500. They wrap these lights around palm tress at the community entrance and they have a contractor do this.
I don't agree with this. I'm not against people celebrating Christmas , but I don't think it should be with the Association's money.

They think they have solved the problem by calling it "Holiday lights" , which I think is ridiculous , since there is no other holiday celebrated by wrapping lights around trees, other than Christmas.

So I have two questions:

1) Can I do something about this? ( to stop it I mean)
2) what if someone now steps up and says : "well, I want an $11,000 "holiday" Menorah at the entrance as well" or someone wants an$11,000 "holiday" Buddha statue , whatever... would the association have to obligue? and if not, wouldn't that be discrimination?

Thanks for your answers
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
Without knowing how big your HOA is and what the annual budget is, I'd say $11k on holiday decorations (per year?) sounds like a lot, but maybe that's pocket change for your HOA? I doubt it, if they started out spending $500/yr.

Is there really a religion-specific significance to wrapping lights around structures and trees?

If they're setting up a nativity scene, I'd say that's going too far...but if it's just lights, even though part of me says "waste of money", a majority of the members likely expect it and will be disappointed if the HOA does nothing for holiday decorations.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Majority rules... and a majority rules the money. It's just a few weeks a year and brings some kids/adults some joy. Everyone likes a blinking lights in their eyes.

Former HOA President
PaaN
Posts: 219
Posted:
.... and the 'ding' of their devices ....

pavlov
GuillermoD (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
It is a small amount compared to the budget which I think is more than a million dollars. However , it is the principle behind it. I would rather them donate to a charity if thats what they ant to do , than spend it in useless lights.

"Is there really a religion-specific significance to wrapping lights around structures and trees?" let's not kid ourselves, this is done in December and does not reflect back to any other region other than Christianity. In Hannukah which is the other potential "holiday" , people does not wrap lights around anything. Let's not even go there , because it is pointless and a waste of time to argue this. But thanks for your response
GuillermoD (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Well, I guess you're getting at precisely the issue I wanted to find out. IS that how HOAs work ? majority rules? particularly when it comes to religion ?
So for example if I lived in a very conservative community , will it be ok for them to place signs around the community condemning abortion? or.... what about if we become eventually majority muslim? will it be ok for the HOA to rule that women have to wear hijab? or will you be fine a majority jewish community spend your money buying a $15k Menorah for the entrance for Hanukkah ?
PatJ1 (North Carolina)
Posts: 568
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GuillermoD on 09/16/2018 10:57 AM
It is a small amount compared to the budget which I think is more than a million dollars. However , it is the principle behind it. I would rather them donate to a charity if thats what they ant to do , than spend it in useless lights.

"Is there really a religion-specific significance to wrapping lights around structures and trees?" let's not kid ourselves, this is done in December and does not reflect back to any other region other than Christianity. In Hannukah which is the other potential "holiday" , people does not wrap lights around anything. Let's not even go there , because it is pointless and a waste of time to argue this. But thanks for your response

In our community this would be considered a misuse of funds when we have many safety issues to deal with. However, we don't have a Million + budget a year. We shop a dollar store for decorations.

If you would like to see changes, run for a Board position during your next annual meeting and try to make that change. All HOA's have their own agenda and if the buildings needed maintenance with this money being spent on lights, there's a point. Otherwise the Board and community is fine with the lights.
GuillermoD (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thanks for your answer.
I would love to run for a Board position. However, I work 10 hours a day + commute and couldn't do that effectively. All Board members are retired and have the time to do so.
I didn't try to beat them up , I just raised the point. It was them who actually were a bit dismissive and sarcastic and said something to the effect of : "this is nothing and the lights stay. "
Thanks for your answer anyways. I guess the main point here is there's nothing I can do about it but put up with it or move.
Thanks
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
You could, Guillermo, try to get your fellow owners to ask the Board or speak out at open meetings saying how much they feel the lights are a waste of money. That nagging by a lot of owners might encourage the board to spend less. Or get a petition signed to try to persuade the board to spend less.

Otherwise, why should they take them down or reduce them just for you? Menorahs are specifically religious where the lights are fairly generic and don't represent a religion. And, of course, no board could force anyone to wear certain kinds of clothes because of other rights we have in the USA.

Melissa's wrong, it's not that a majority of the owners decide whether to have them or not, but a majority of the board does decide with its vote.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Christmas is a secular holiday as well as a religious one. I think you'd be hard pressed to convince anyone that lights on trees have a specific religious significance. But more than that, I think you greatly underestimate how popular holiday lights are in a community. I have never managed a community where the residents didn't want lights. They have fussed over price - because nobody thinks commercial lights are as expensive as they are - but the only feedback I've ever had from homeowners in the dozens of HOAs I've managed is that they want more decorations and lights. Have you talked to any of your neighbors about this?
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
A few years ago, our former president had a wreath put up on the chimney of the clubhouse for the holidays. As far as I know, no one complained and it WAS a nice touch to the community because 90% don't put up anything (they rarely say anything about what the board does either.

Wrapping lights around the palm trees don't seem excessive, although I agree with you on the cost. The only way I can see the expenses getting that expensive is because of the electrical costs and having a contractor putting them up (this isn't a job for volunteers without insurance). I also see your point on holiday lights in general - personally, I think it would be more appropriate to sponsor a community-wide party and/or home decorating contest where prizes could be given (not $11,500 worth!) You get the holiday lights from whoever wants to participate, the community looks festive and you don't favor one holiday over another.

You haven't said if you've even talked to the board, so why not start there? At least you should ask for some answers regarding the costs to see if there's a less expensive way to do it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Guillermo,

I’ve been on boards in two neighborhoods when I was working 10 hr days and commuting back forth from Northen Virginia to Baltimore ...

While I understand the feeling, it is a cop out that many use as an excuse.

If you have an issue with board decisions, do something other than complain.

Get smart on your docs, get elected to the board, organize a special meeting to change the expenditure ...

Don’t just give up.
PaaN
Posts: 219
Posted:
assuming 1.5 million budget the lights are 0.7333 %

yes, LESS than 1 %
GuillermoD (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
No, but the few people who were in the meeting where I raised the issue didn't seem to be too concerned, so I guess you're right.
GuillermoD (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thanks for your advice, but I don't feel I need to run for the Board just because I have an issue with some Christmas lights .
GuillermoD (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
Thanks, I guess that's what I needed to hear. I didn't realize until now the Board pretty much has absolute power over what happens in the community.
GuillermoD (Florida)
Posts: 8
Posted:
I have talked to them at the last meeting. They didn't like to be challenged and were kind of dismissive and unwilling to talk much about it. Since I didn't get much support from other owners present there, I believe this is pretty much a closed case.
Thanks for your feedback
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GuillermoD on 09/17/2018 7:00 AM
Thanks, I guess that's what I needed to hear. I didn't realize until now the Board pretty much has absolute power over what happens in the community.

Umm, no. It may seem that way, but remember, homeowners elect board members and if/when they want to change who's running the show, it can be done at an annual election (or recall, which is another story).

It may be a wee discouraging because it seems no one cares about this issue, but that doesn't mean go home and sulk. It may be you need to pick your battles - and there could be something brewing that's a lot more serious than Christmas lights. keep going to meetings when you can and listen to the proceedings. Ask questions about anything you don't understand, and don't let the hemming and hawing stop you. they will soon understand that at least one person is paying attention and sometimes that one person is the one who will spark a revolution. It's happened over and over in other areas if you read your history and this may be the start of something big for you. Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sheila's right, Guillermo!
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sorry, All ... I'm reading this that Guillermo does not want to put the time into learning what is needed to understand the process enough to make the changes he feels are needed. He also does not want to engage in the process as a participant - i.e. Board member.

I don't want to be harsh, but it sounds like he complained about something at the Board meeting, didn't know the lights made up a tiny percentage and that the Board was united behind continuing with the lights - and, it sounds like the community supports the lights ...
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GuillermoD on 09/17/2018 7:00 AM
Thanks, I guess that's what I needed to hear. I didn't realize until now the Board pretty much has absolute power over what happens in the community.

You mean to say "the board has pretty much absolute power over an indifferent community."
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Fred ... smiling ... yeah, kinda the same thing in an HOA.

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