Conflict for running for the HOA board.

Started by GaryW12 • 19 replies • 661 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

GaryW12 (Alabama)
Posts: 56

Posted:

I have a huge conflict.

I've been trying to educate people on how to run a HOA to keep from breaking Florida statues, and mail fraud.

I found out today my biggest helper until today was seemingly like-minded said she did not care about the issue Im about to point out.

Not only did that person not care, they remained me out saying I was being too technical and that they would have a hard time working on the board with me.
And that person also said "we won't' have a dictator, just because you want to change the verbiage to say "past due" to " a friendly reminder that your dues may be due" ro something to that effect to save from litigation. That kinda stuff makes me mad./

Example.

The HOA I have part of the dues in mandatory part is voluntary.
The mail out a letter in the U.S. post office saying "your dues is past due"

They are combining the DUES amount with an optional voluntary part as ONE price.

I have been informed that if you mail out a letter with an envelope for return mail, saying that YOUR PAST DUE, you are committing mail fraud.

since I am getting blasted for TRYING to do things by the book, to save the board form a lawsuit, and I have "helpers" reaming me out about "nitty picky" stuff.

Since I am a by the book type, is is a good idea to just nto run at all and say the hell with all these people"?

What If i were on the board, and they voted to not change the verbiage of the letters they mail out, ARNT I still liable for it if someone sues for mail fraud.

I'm thinking I don't want to take on legal issues, as I am seemingly going to be working with people that like to live fast and loose and don't think ahead.

How could i protect MYSELF if i waws on the board and the "board as a whole" makes a careless move?

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

..... What If i were on the board, and they voted to not change the verbiage of the letters they mail out, ARNT I still liable for it if someone sues for mail fraud. .....

You merely state: Record my NAY vote in the minutes.

Should they fail to do so, you have the following options:

Resign IN WRITING VIA CERTIFIED MAIL giving the reason AND post the letter of resignation in a public location for all to see.

Petition a court of law for an order of compliance a/k/a injunction.

Go with the flow.

Move.

GaryW12 (Alabama)
Posts: 56

Posted:

yea looks like its a good time to sale.

I can't find 2 people I can see totally eye to eye with, let alone 5.

So it looks like if i got on, id just quit anyway, when they try to do illegal things.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

No one "Sues" for mail fraud. It is a CRIMINAL offense. You go to jail for it. If we are going to be "nick-picky" about things going by the book.

Plus your HOA is going to be threatened to be sue, do things that COULD/Should cause a lawsuit, and be sued for ANYHING. Your only mitigating the risk NOT preventing a lawsuit. It's why one has insurance. To pay out when the risk is no longer an option but a reality.

I too would say stop the madness. Sending out a past dues notice is mail fraud? Whom told you that? All I know is you can't put something in a mailbox without a stamp on it. What is inside it is another story.

Former HOA President

GaryW12 (Alabama)
Posts: 56

Posted:

Well since the HOA does not have insurance. it is a bad idea to run for the board correct?

GaryW12 (Alabama)
Posts: 56

Posted:

I was told if you mail out an invoice to someone saying you OWN money, when part of that $$ listed is on a 100% voluntary basis, it is mail fraud.

GaryW12 (Alabama)
Posts: 56

Posted:

What I meant to type was

you OWE money.

Saying someone is past due and OWES money is not the same as saying, hey we would like you to know we want money. or would like to request more money.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I still do not know who told you this. That is unclear. Sounds like a lot of ASSUMING. A HOA often sends letters out saying that dues are behind. Doesn't mean it's accurate. What if the home changed hands and the previous owner owed the dues? Now is it fraud? It is sent to the address in the HOA. Names of owners/members change. Addresses don't.

Former HOA President

GaryW12 (Alabama)
Posts: 56

Posted:

Ill explain again.

I'll use round numbers.

let's say dues is 100.00

let's say the voluntary beautification donation is 40.00 dollars.

One is mandatory the other is voluntary.

To send out a letter saying your are PAST DUE on your DUES of 140.00 dollars, please pay now.

I hope people can see what I'm saying.

I'm under the impression if you mail someone and you say that they OWE you money, that is factually wrong, if they only owe 100.00 they definately don't OWE you 140.00

that is my point.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Still don't see it. I would take that as a billing mistake. Would never call that "Mail fraud". Mail fraud is an actual crime. Something that put a few mobsters in jail...

So I don't see how one would get sued for mail fraud. They would sue you for sending a false invoice maybe. That has nothing to do with mail fraud. Ask a Postal inspector. The Post office has their own "Police". Good question to ask them.

Former HOA President

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 09/13/2018 7:10 PM
Still don't see it. I would take that as a billing mistake. Would never call that "Mail fraud". Mail fraud is an actual crime. Something that put a few mobsters in jail...

So I don't see how one would get sued for mail fraud. They would sue you for sending a false invoice maybe. That has nothing to do with mail fraud. Ask a Postal inspector. The Post office has their own "Police". Good question to ask them.

NOT IF YOU KNOW BEFORE YOU MAIL

D'OH

GaryW12 (Alabama)
Posts: 56

Posted:

Ok, ive told these people that there wording it wrong for years.

Once you know your misinforming people, of which people have asked for a REFUND for the difference as they don't want to do the voluntary part and they have been giving it back.

I guess this is why I wont run for the HOA as nobody can seem to understand a thing I say.

If you're at a 10.00 dollar hamburger joint and they give you your bill for 25.00 you OWE us, saying 25.00 due and your like what? they say ohh well 15.00 more was for your VONTUELARY contribution...........hope that helps clear up my point.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

And I am not going to dispute this in the normal process of things? I do not just pay a bill because I got sent one. I would make a call and ask questions. Your scenerio has people paying a bill no questions asked. How many people would ever do that?

Former HOA President

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

MANY MANY MANY

ergo: the crime of fraud

D'OH

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Fraud is a CRIME. It is something one gets prosecuted for. This is a corporation. They have what is called a "corporate shield". Plus should have insurance for their board members. If not, then they get what they get... Can't sugar coat that.

I don't see a case of being sued for "fraud". The HOA sending out a bill in mistake saying one owes money? Easily disputed within putting in a statement "If you find this information in error, please contact XXX". Simple as that if is such a concern. Disclaimer solves everything doesn't it?

Mail fraud is a CRIMINAL OFFENSE. Small claims court does not handle that if one was to get sued. It's a criminal matter. Which if it's mail fraud is a federal offense and probably handled by the Postal Service. The resource best to advise if it's mail fraud or a billing mistake.

Former HOA President

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

from Melissa:

..... The HOA sending out a bill in mistake saying one owes money? .....

Can you not read the OP's posts ?

The bills are NOT, repeat NOT, being sent out "in mistake".

They are being sent out KNOWINGLY and DELIBERATELY incorrect.

+

Corporate Directors are, in fact, often ARRESTED for their willful criminal acts as directors.

+

Said Directors are NOT, repeat NOT, either 'indemnified' or covered by D&O insurance.

+

The 'corporate shield' only applies to acts of directors performed in good faith using 'standard' business judgment.

GaryW12 (Alabama)
Posts: 56

Posted:

I agree and I have a paper trail.

They say "well if we separate dues and the "beautification fund" then people will only pay 5.00, so we just add them both to "get more money"

So I guess I should just turn that into the sheriff's office. as I have that in email, and also a letter they mail out.

CathyA3 (Ohio)
Posts: 6,299

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GaryW12 on 09/13/2018 6:06 PM
Well since the HOA does not have insurance. it is a bad idea to run for the board correct?

YES! Part of the insurance that most (all?) HOA's must carry is Directors and Officers insurance to protect board members from being sued for going about their normal duties. D&O insurance typically will NOT cover you for willful misconduct, though.

No way would I serve on the board without this insurance.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Please get back to Gary's issues and offer constructive advice.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GaryW12 on 09/14/2018 6:15 AM
I agree and I have a paper trail.

They say "well if we separate dues and the "beautification fund" then people will only pay 5.00, so we just add them both to "get more money"

So I guess I should just turn that into the sheriff's office. as I have that in email, and also a letter they mail out.

Yeah, that'll work.

There have been cases where board members have embezzled tens of thousands of dollars from Florida condos and HOAs. Even in clear-cut cases it's sometimes next to impossible to get a prosecutor or district attorney to file criminal charges. There's a very strong presumption that it's a "civil matter". There's a line that once crossed should trigger a criminal investigation. Good luck with that, though. Mail fraud would require a US Attorney to investigate and file charges. I wish you well, but I wouldn't be getting my hopes up.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

✓ Ask follow-up questions
✓ Share your experience
✓ Get expert advice
✓ Access 350,000 discussions

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here