Residents Ignoring Turnover Meeting

Started by AmandaC4 • 25 replies • 1083 views

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AmandaC4 (Indiana)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Just prior to closing on our new home this spring, we found out we were moving into a terrible builder/PM HOA (no resident board) situation with stifling restrictions. The PM, Omni, refused to give us any information and referred us to public records. The previous owner gave us information with very old deed and by-laws information. We should have (gut instinct) backed out but did not and didn't see the one amendment until after we closed.

Just before we moved in, we found out by accident the builder Turnover was imminent. We confirmed it with the builder who was aggravated we got his number and had the audacity to call him directly. We knew that few would know what that event meant and the importance. Wanting to protect our investment, we made up flyers and hand-delivered them to 212 homes in two linked communities. There are two associations, a master and a servient or secondary. The house was under one year old and after we moved in have dealt with a laundry list of warranty issues, structural, belly, broken pipes, you name it, started with a bloop and splash in the toilet the very first night. It was not disclosed and the home inspector didn't find any of the issues prior. That was June 8 and yesterday, September 12, we just got our driveway re-poured. Needless to say, we haven't been thinking about the Turnover.

Two days ago, we got the letter from Omni for the Turnover meeting, which is coming up fast, September 25. The letter was sparse with details and said the purpose of the meeting was to elect board members. It didn't even say what the minimum needed was (3 or 5?). I had spoken to the president before by email who will be attending and sent him an email yesterday with questions. I got an auto-response saying he would be out of the office from Sep 6-Sep 17 and no one returned my call to their office. Isn't that just convenient? I'd done a survey form before and pulled those out (which were few) and began emailing and calling. Two residents called me back and one emailed back to say she was fed up and moving. Can't blame her because we are almost there ourselves already.

I have done a ton of research and even spoken to new PM management prospects. Today I found out it is going to be hard to get rid of Omni. We have to have (no wonder the president is so smug) a 2/3rd vote including both communities. That will amount to a lot of people. And I'm positive the pres has many other tricks up his sleeve to maintain the business. Like a minimal amount of time before another contract automatically goes into effect if a board is not elected. At this point, I doubt many will even show up for the Turnover meeting. I've even knocked on a few doors around me and several are already "busy" on that night.

This is a ridiculous situation. Yet EVERY single resident has complaints about Omni. The company is terrible. A hateful woman drives around our neighborhood and stalks around our yards with a camera and verbally threatens people. She told me she'd be keeping an eye on me in an email before we even moved in. Just a handful are willing to get off their lazy butts and help. I mean like four people out of both communities/ 212 homes. In a nutshell, I don't care for sheep and I'm not a shepherd. I'm a retired, disabled woman who has had a previous HOA situation when I lived in a condo years ago and was willing to volunteer and help.

What the heck can we expect to happen here? What happens if people try to ignore the Turnover and refuse to serve? As soon as the concrete dries outside and the sod is replaced, we're thinking about getting out while the market is good too. Currently, every house here sells within days or a couple of weeks (poor fools). I'm gonna feel guilty putting a for-sale sign out.

Thank you for any and all replies in advance.

Hopeless in Indiana

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Number one read the rules here. Don't post names of the HOA or the MC's. It's not fair on them as we only hear 1 side of the story.

Referring to reading the rules... Seems you need to go back and read yours. They ARE Public documents. Hence why you were referred to go find them if they weren't given to you by the seller. They are in your County Courthouse for the CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation at the state level.

The president you are referring to... Are they an owner or the builder appointed? There is a difference. They may not be qualified to stay on the board if they are not an owner.

The relationship to the MC will be as hired contractor to the HOA. Hired to assist in handling HOA business. Which now the builder has them hired to do for them. Don't expect much answers from them. They work for the builder.

People aren't ignoring the meeting. They may not be interested. HOA's are full of apathy. They may not care. Don't disparage them because they are. Do what you got to do to make you satisfied with the turn over. Others will follow once they realize what is going on. Which believe me you may be the source one day of their dissatisfaction of what happened.

Former HOA President

GwenG (Florida)
Posts: 669

Posted:

AmandaC4/Hopeless in Indiana: You already know the answer to your question. Pack.

TimM11
Posts: 354

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AmandaC4 on 09/13/2018 2:28 AM
Currently, every house here sells within days or a couple of weeks (poor fools). I'm gonna feel guilty putting a for-sale sign out.

Don't feel guilty. If buyers and realtors don't do their homework, that's on them as long as you're honest and do what's required. Do what's best for you, whether that is staying or leaving.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Amanda

My initial blush is you will never be satisfied with association living.

AmandaC4 (Indiana)
Posts: 15

Posted:

I'm a little confused by the first response except for the reminder of rules here. Sorry. When this began I was as ignorant as everyone else as to what a Turnover meant and had to do some research. I know records are public and we contracted with a relocation company rather than the original homeowner who was moving because of her job and everything was passed via the realtors. I never got a chance to speak about the HOA with the owner. I don't need a lambasting, I needed information and hopefully, a response concerning my ultimate question which is what could happen if residents do not step up to board positions or there is not enough for a board? My family has just barely stepped foot into the neighborhood and has had two major shocks. So I can't help but be extremely worried about this whole thing.

The original deeds/rules and restrictions contract was written to protect the builder/s and they were the board as I understand it and was also signed by the builder. When I noted pres/president, I'm talking about the current management company and don't understand why it will be that hard to vote them out. It does say 2/3rds of both communities and another PM confirmed it looks tough. Management companies serve a purpose and we still need one but one that works for us. Personally, I want to keep an HOA and have nothing against PMs unless they are trying to mislead people or don't do the job which is what happened when I owned a condo. The board members were elderly and knew little about the purpose of a board except for socializing time and no one else wanted to do it. The result was everyone paying the price for that. And as I mentioned, I had just moved into that situation as well.

And the last sentence was very irksome. How can I harm the Turnover when all I've ever done is seek information. Then gave residents the advance notice the PM didn't give us along with links to inform themselves of what a Turnover would mean to a community. I'm not leading any charge. But I'm extremely worried about this meeting and what the current PM might do. Residents who were gung-ho then are hiding now. And please consider I'm no expert and I'm not spending any more of my own money to call an attorney to figure this out for folks that just don't care. Yes, I'm aggravated. My experience with residents of HOAs and some property managers attitudes have been equally awful. Not one more than the other.

Again, thank you for letting me ask questions here. I was grateful to find this site.

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

Where are you and the PM getting the information that 2/3 of homeowners must vote to remove the PM?

Typically the PM is a vendor hired by the Board, and can be replaced by the Board. Your bylaws should spell out the duties of the Board of Directors, including the ability to hire and fire vendors.

Are you saying that the Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions actually state that only one management company can manage the community, unless removed by 2/3 of the homeowners?

That 2/3 benchmark is typically what you see as the standard for amending the Covenants.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Amanda

As you bought a resale, you have little recourse to the builder unless there is a warranty. Many of our disgruntled owners were 2nd time buyers who did not get the proper information. I blame this on sellers and their real estate agents. Nearly all of ou first time buyers are happy campers as they understood most of it going in.

Several things to be careful of in a turnover:
Is the builder leaving the association debt free?
Is there a reserve fund and that it gets turned over to the association.

Bylaws typically control elections, BOD's, how BOD's are elected, BOD size , etc. so re-read the Bylaws closely.

AmandaC4 (Indiana)
Posts: 15

Posted:

BarbaraT1, you nailed it. Your questions are exactly the ones that confuse me. Exactly. I thought it had to do with covenants and rules too. The drive-by terror with the PM I mentioned said 51% to vote them out when she harassed a lady and made her remove her spring flowers and the resident told her we were voting them out. The new PM prospect I talked to said it looks like 75% in the contract. Yeah, I think they wrote it in there and made a deal with the PM in 2014 when they did the one amendment. But like I said, I'm not using my own money to hire a lawyer to figure it out.

Also, it dawned on me. I'll get some harsh comments. The PM has watchdogs (LL) that comb for negative items on sites like this and the BBB. They are huge and in several states. Lots and lots of negative comments about them and the builder company involved. The only thing they can do is snipe and belittle complainers. The drive-by terror said something similar to me as one person here, "Sorry you'll never be happy in a deed restricted community and you'll never get what you want." Smug.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

My questions is like Barbara's, Amanda. But even if the 2/3 vote by owners isn't correct, you need to somehow get owners to run for the board.
The management company (MC) or the property mgr. are NOT the presidents, they are vendors who have a contract with your HOA via its developer board.

Your bylaws should tell you how many directors you should have. They also should say, perhaps, how many directors come form the master association and how many form the other one. But unless you can generate some response from your owner/neighbors, it'll be hard to see a positive change.

Not to be unfriendly, but it would help us if you pare down your writing-some of us don't have much time on our hands and though I want to help, I can't spend a lot of time reading long posts. It's unfortunate that the first few replies weren't helpful. I hope you'l receive others that might actually be useful.

AmandaC4 (Indiana)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Gah! This all that has to do with the turnover. No board member info. Sorry, it's not short. If I wasn't giving specific details, I would be asked for more. I tried to cut out the non-important details.

Here goes:

12.3 Amendments. Until the Turnover Date, the Developer may, in its sole and absolute discretion, unilaterally amend this Declaration at any time and from time to time, without the consent of any other Owners. Any such amendment may impose covenants, conditions, restrictions, and easements upon the Property in addition to those set forth herein including, without limitation, restrictions on use and covenants to pay additional charges with respect to the maintenance and improvement of the Property. After the Turnover Date, the Developer may unilaterally amend this Declaration, without the consent of any other Owners, if such amendment is: (a) necessary to bring. any provision hereof into compliance with any applicable governmental statute, rule, regulation or: \ judicial order, (b) necessary to enable any reputable title insurance company to issue title insurance· coverage on the Lots; (c) necessary to conform to the requirements ofUnited States Federal Housing· Administration. or (d) necessary to correct errors; provided, however, any such amendment shall not materially adversely affect the title to any Lot unless the Owner thereof has consented to such amendment in writing. No amendment may remove, revoke or modify any right or privilege of the Developer without the written consent of the Developer or the assignee of such right or privilege. The Developer shall have the right and power, but neither the duty nor the obligation, in its sole and absolute discretion and by its sole act, to subject additional property to this Declaration at any time and from time to time by executing and recording in the appropriate governmental office an amendment to this Declaration specifying that such additional property is part of the Property. An amendment to these Restrictions made by the Developer shall not require the joinder or consent of the Association, other owners, mortgages or any other person. In addition, such amendments to the Declaration may contain such supplementary. additional, differen~ new, varied, revised or amended provisions and memberships as may be necessary or appropriate, as determined by the Developer. to reflect and address the different character or intended development of any such additional property.

In addition, this Declaration may be amended or modified after the Turnover Date with the approval of Owners holding not less than two-thirds (213) of the voting power of all Owners in the Association, provided that the consent of all owners shall be required for any amendment which effects a change in the voting power of any Owner, the method of allocating Common Expenses among Owners, or the fundamental purpose for which the Association is organized. Any amendment to this Declaration adopted with the aforesaid consent shall be executed with the same formalities as to execution as observed in this Declaration by the president and the secretary of the Association and shall contain their certifications that the amendment was duly adopted in accordance with the requirements of this paragraph. Any amendment so adopted and executed shall be effective upon the filing of the same with the Recorder of Jefferson County, Kentucky.

Do you read this the same as the PM I spoke with?

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

"12.3 Amendments. Until the Turnover Date, the Developer may, in its sole and absolute discretion, unilaterally amend this Declaration at any time and from time to time, without the consent of any other Owners"

The developer is TOTALLY in charge until after 'turnover'.

"In addition, this Declaration may be amended or modified after the Turnover Date with the approval of Owners holding not less than two-thirds (213) of the voting power of all Owners in the Association, provided that the consent of all owners shall be required for any amendment which effects a change in the voting power of any Owner, the method of allocating Common Expenses among Owners, or the fundamental purpose for which the Association is organized."

After turnover the CCRs may be amended by a 2/3 vote of the membership.

The CCRs 'probably' require the formation of an INCORPORATED HOA.
Said corporation will have a Board of Directors as per its corporate bylaws and state corporate law.

While the developer is an charge he/she will in practice have total control over said Board of Directors as he/she most likely appointed or voted them in.

After turnover you all as owners/members can vote in a new 'board'.

The 'board's' job is the operation of the corporation.
The corporation's function is the management of the HOA.

Do not confuse the BOD's hiring of a 'management company' with their delegation of fiduciary responsibility, which they can NOT delegate.

BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821

Posted:

I don't see anything in what you posted Amanda, that would suggest you need a 2/3 majority to fire the management company.

The Board doesn't need to amend the governing documents to fire the management company. Once you have a homeowner board, they can consult an attorney at the Association's expense to determine how to sever the relationship with the MC.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Without reading Amanda's last post, no time, I agree with Barbara. H'owners do NOT vote to hire or fire MCs, the Board does.

You need to find your bylaws,Amanda, which your HOA does have IF it's a corpotation and most are.

AmandaC4 (Indiana)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Unfortunately, I've been told what I have is it. An original document starting with the other builder in 2004 for the first section which is master and a different association because they are like garden homes. There was not much in it except legal garble I can't understand. It was very restrictive and they weren't allowed to make any property or PM changes. The one amendment in 2014 for my section which is SF homes and straight HOA, they added a single page of changes, giving our section a name and calling us servient. The PM wants us both to form two resident boards but looks like vote like one community of 212 homes to get the old PM out.

I know it's confusing, that's why I say I'd need legal help to pick it apart. Because of physical issues now, I can't even walk the neighborhood like before and talk to people. I guess if that initial Turnover meeting is not a total disaster and we get our board of 3-5 people, we can ask for all the documents we need and work this out at the board's expense. I've got a list. The thing is I've read where old PMs have given a minimal window to vote them out or an automatic new contract goes into effect and our PM is already messing with us. Their office still has not called me back and all I want to know is the minimum number needed for the board and how we vote. Ballots, hands, proxy? The letter said we will vote that night on a new board. We were given two weeks, we don't know each other, ridiculous.

I'm scared because, in my old situation with the condo, we ended up paying about $1000k each out of our pockets to fix the mess. I was young, single, and poor. We already moved into a potential money pit here, I don't want surprise expenses like that too. If the current PM stays, I also don't want to stay here and have somebody creeping around my house every two weeks or paying them to ask permission to plant a stupid flower. Chances are, by that night, we'll have a sign out front anyway and hopefully a contract on this place. My gut is telling me to get while the getting is good with tail between legs. Move my family into a better situation and take a little hit.

Thanks to everyone who responded for your time and help. I'm really thinking now and will check back and pass on anything helpful to the few residents who do care about the plight of the neighborhood.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Please give us the exact wording where it says, "and they weren't allowed to make any property or PM changes."

Sheila of IN might help as she's very knowledgeable.

But in you situation, it might be better to sell--I just wasn't as willing to give up on your situation, but perhaps that's best.

AmandaC4 (Indiana)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Thank you Paan and KerryL1 for your contribution and asking more questions.

I'm not usually a cut and run person but I'm alone here and not leading a crusade. We know these were set up as developer ruled associations while under construction. The PM says the same thing regarding firing them as that section the new potential PM found, which I posted. Majority vote of 2/3rds. Nothing is very clear the way the declaration was written.

The document does not expressly say no to any changes. There is a long modification clause that says you have to submit a request to make any changes to the outside of your property via a review board first. Then under use of lots, it details what you can't have or do, which is most everything in the beginning and after the amendment for SF homes, they allow four-ft. pine box-style fences and hot tubs. You are not able to plant what you want, where you want in your own yard and no sheds allowed.

When you submit to the review board noted in the modification clause, you have to pay $25 whether your plan is okay'd or not and in most cases, it is denied. Our neighborhood looks barren. There is no brightness or individuality at all. It looks stifled. Every time you ask the HOA for details, they say to submit a design application. The PM pockets all that money after denying most requests. I have never, ever gotten a clear answer to anything from them. I got more from a representative with the builder in one of the offices here. They will fine you for something as petty as having your garbage can out in the drive while working on your vehicle.

I did see two other notes regarding Turnover below. This is it. No pertinent information about the board or voting. Below they are talking about the PMs Design Review Board like it's not going away. Not like we'll be forming our own.

1 - Following the Turnover, the Design Review Board shall have an equal number of representatives from each Servient Association. As to any Design Review application for approval of an Improvement on a Type II Housing Lot that is neither adjacent to nor visible from Type I Housing lots, only the Design Review Board representatives living in the Type II Housing portion of the Community shall vote on such application; and as -to any Design Review application for approval of an Improvement on a Type; Housing Lot that is neither adjacent to nor visible from Type II Housing Lots, only the Design Review Board representatives living in the Type I Housing portion of the Community shall vote on such application.

And I did see this note in amendments.

2 - After the Turnover Date, the Developer shall have one hundred and one (101) votes for each lot owned by Developer, or Developers affiliated entitles (Including unrelated third-party homebuilders, if applicable). When Developer no longer owns any Lots in the Community, It shall cease to be a member of the Master Association and shall have no more voting powers therein. The Servient Associations' elected Trustees shall determine how the Servient Associations' votes, respectively, are cast, and each Servient Association may elect through such Board Members to exercise their respective voting rights in the Master Association as they see fit, whether voting all lOO votes the same, or dividing and distributing such votes if they so desire.

Not clear on the above. This is it. Got nothing else to show you. Sorry, there is so much here. Can't help thinking it's vague on purpose and the new boards will have a battle ahead to fire the current PM and form associations that work for them.

Thanks again

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

Those are typical CCRs.

What you need now are:

Name and address of the actual XYZ HOA, Inc.

Name and address of the Registered Agent for XYZ HOA, Inc.

The corporate bylaws.

State not-for-profit corporate law.

4-6 years to read and comprehend it all.

The name and address of a competent moving company.

AmandaC4 (Indiana)
Posts: 15

Posted:

LOL
Paan, you and GwenG probably posted the best advice.
Think I should scoot.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

Whew! I’ve read this thread several times to try and find out what you’re really concerned about – the property manager’s conduct, whether the developer will have any power after the turnover, what the hell your documents really say and so on. I think everyone else has done a great job with some of your questions - I wish I could be of more help, but I’ve never lived in a community that had to deal with a turnover - when I moved into my HOA it was already 23 years old and past a lot of that drama.

That said, here’s one person’s observations and questions

1. Everyone has noted that you don’t seem to understand your community’s documents, so job one is to go to an attorney and get some help in interpreting it. It’s ok to come to this site and ask questions, but remember we aren’t attorneys and what may be true in Indiana may not be in California or New Jersey.

Jot down the issues that concern you the most and go from there. It appears you want to know what sort of power, if any, the developer will have after the community is turned over and whether it’s stuck with the current property manager, but you also need to understand the difference between bylaws and CCRs. Generally, the bylaws dictate how the association itself is run (how many board members, how they get elected or appointed, number of meetings, etc.) The CCRs dictate how the common area is to be used, which includes making certain exterior changes to your home. Unfortunately, they aren’t always written in plain English.

One thing the attorney may talk about is the 2009 law concerning HOAs and I believe it’s been updated since then to discuss the grievance process. Here’s a link you may want to review (this law form once represented my HOA) - https://eadsmurraypugh.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/Indiana-HOA-Act-as-of-2015.pdf

2. If there is a board election at that meeting, you might want to consider running for a spot – in fact, if you’ve connected with a few other people who are just as concerned as you are, your group might end up as the board. If this community is as apathetic as you say (and it probably is), it might not take very much for this to happen if you get enough people to show up. You say you’re not able to do a lot of walking around the community – get those concerned neighbors to help you. If everyone takes a certain section of the community and can each get a small group to show up, that’s a start.

3. You may not think you have the expertise or the time to be on the board, but you seem to have common sense and a concern about the community’s wellbeing, so start from where you are. The point is not to try and do everything yourself or expect everyone to feel about association issues the way you do. Prioritize what needs to be done and work through that list. I might start with the property manager – get a copy of the contract and review it to understand what he/she is supposed to be doing. Remember the BOARD dictates the overall direction of the community, meaning the property manager works for you. The new board, whoever they are, may want to have a come to Jesus meeting to discuss how everyone is going to work together. If the manager shows her ass or tries to dictate things to YOU, that’s when you might want to consider getting rid of her.

4. I often recommend people visit the website of the Community Association Institute (CAI), which is a national organization of HOAs, property management companies and other folk who have an interest in HOA living. Some people don’t like some of the stances CAI takes on national issues, but I really like their education materials for new and experience board members and homeowners in general. There are books, brochures and webinars on a number of topics like reserves, rules enforcement and – developer turnover.

The developer turnover information talks about some of the issues you’re concerned about and how new boards can work with the developer to ensure a smooth transition. Since your meeting is coming up soon, you might want to start with any online information that’s available. There is a membership fee, so you’ll need to decide if you want to make that investment. Better yet, if you make it on the board, suggest that it consider a group membership so all of you can be educated. You don’t say what part of Indiana you’re in, but you might check the website to see if there’s a chapter in your area (I live in Central Indiana and attended several of their educational meetings when I served on my board).

5. I agree with everyone here that the 2/3rds vote you’re looking at probably refers to amending the CCRs, not getting rid of the property manager. Once again, get an attorney to help you decipher your documents so you’ll know what’s what.

6. John made a great observation – you absolutely need to know two things about this turnover (A) is the builder leaving the association debt free and (B) has a reserve fund been established that will be turned over to the association. That’s a great observation and you might want to ask about this at that meeting. If there’s a lot of hemming and hawing, promises to get back to you (and they never do), or they flat out refuse to answer, you may be in big trouble.

7. Which brings us to the question you asked at the start - what happens if people refuse to serve? Basically, you may wind up with a shitstorm in the form of a board who don’t know what they’re doing Well, you may get a group who don’t know what they’re doing and proceed to stink up the joint and waste A LOT of money. Worst case scenario – the community ends up in receivership and a judge appoints someone to run the community. That person answers to the judge and the homeowners may not be able to do anything for a while until the judge decides the community is stabilized and a few people have come forward expressing interest in serving on the board. Meanwhile the homeowners have to pay assessments to take care of the common area maintenance, pay the property manager, fund the reserves – and pay the receivership fees and other legal expenses. It will put a huge smackdown on your wallet, which is why receivership is always the last choice.

So, you have to decide how much you love your home and what you’re willing to do to help ensure you understand your rights and obligations as an association member and what you should expect of your board of directors. The developer is on the way out and probably doesn’t care what happens after that, so YOU have to look out for your best interests. You already had a bad experience with your last home, which was a condo, so if you’ve decided you really don’t like or understand association living, I’d have to agree with Gwen and PaaN –cut your losses and get out of there as soon as you can. Good luck in whatever you choose to do.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AmandaC4 (Indiana)
Posts: 15

Posted:

KerryL1 and SheilaH, thank you so much.

This answers all of my questions and the information is invaluable to a new resident board. No, I am not invested in this house or neighborhood. I've felt like there was a dark cloud over the neighborhood since I stepped foot in it. I was sick when my husband put a bid on the house and didn't see it until the day we moved. I remember thinking, "Oh my God." because my gut just heaved when we drove in and I walked into the house. It was a strong gut feeling and that night is when I discovered there was a problem with the plumbing. That was only the first problem. The rest is history now with all the construction issues. About $20k worth. I've never put a picture one on a wall yet. And we have this awful HOA situation and I look out my front window and my neighbor's yard is two feet high. Yet good people trying to improve their property are having to dig up their flowers?

This is not meant to be my home and today we called our CPA about tax concerns. We're good to go. However, I'll be at the meeting for support if needed and I've invited two potential property managers to come and hand out their cards to the new board members elected. IF, a board is elected. Yes, the old PM expects them to vote in a resident board that night. And yes, I'm certain they plan to bamboozle the community. They won't return my calls. I've done all I can do. I gave these people three months notice of the Turnover as opposed to the rushed two weeks they are getting from the PM.

Number seven of Sheilas's post answered my question and this is where I convinced my husband that we need to get out of this situation and into a better one for us as a family. Both of us have health problems now. I will pass on this link to the new board and urge them to band together. It may take time to get the old PM out but they can learn like I did and do it. They can hire a lawyer and someone to do the audit. The old PM has to hand over the documents requested and I have the checklist. That includes the roster of all residents.

If they email a ballot form, they'll get near ninety percent in favor of a new HOA manager and they already know what rules they want to change and update. They will learn like everyone else has in similar communities and situations.

I'm very grateful and others will be too that you took the time to write that long post and share such valuable information. I hope the site bumps this topic now and then to keep it somewhat current for other newbies like us.

Regards,
Amanda

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

..... That includes the roster of all residents. .....

NO NO NO NO NO

Should be:

That includes the roster of all MEMBERS.

The CCRs will say something similar to: Membership is appurtenant to and may not be separated from ownership.

All owners are members (albeit only one vote per lot)

Since a resident may, or may not, be an owner; a resident may, or may not, be a member.

If y'all start off wrong THEN y'all will REALLY have issues.

Words (especially in 'legalese') have meanings - different words have different meanings.

Start off right - no non-members allowed in corporate business. ONLY OWNERS

(as in xyz homeOWNERS association, inc)

AmandaC4 (Indiana)
Posts: 15

Posted:

Paan, it boils down to, if I don't understand this legalese, absolutely nobody here will and they are screwed. That is the way the current PM wants it.

MellisaP1 might be right. When things go wrong somebody has to be the fall guy and it ain't gonna be me for trying to help. My name is not going to be legendary when this thing turns into a sh#*-show. Jeez, I'm wondering if I should even show up in person.

Thank again though. I got what you were trying to say.

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

The documents are not all that complicated.

They are, however, extremely complex and require wading boots.

I, personally, am retired, bored, and have plenty of time.

You, on the other hand, would be well served to either:

fa-ged-bout-it and simply reside there

or

move on down the road (if new development, same issues - if old, possible underfunding)

CAVEAT EMPTOR

and best of luck

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

This is not meant to be your home - did you buy this as an investment property? If so, all the more reason someone (like your husband) should have done some major homework before moving in, especially if you didn't see it until moving day. You two need to have a serious conversation about making such decisions as a couple - starting right now.

I hope you attend as many meetings as you can, along with your husband (I suspect he might need more education than you do). I still think you might want to consider joining the board, but you will have to weight against your health because HOA board membership is trying enough without having health problems to deal with on top of it. To wit, both of the former presidents of my HOA (they're now deceased) were juggling cancer treatments with the board and at one point they left altogether until their health stabilized.

In the meantime, just keep talking to your neighbors (the ones who care) and strongly encourage them to attend meetings as well. Be sure to check out that CAI website to get education materials if only to make yourself aware of best practices. Most important - READ YOUR DOCUMENTS and take notes translating them in plain English if necessary.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

AmandaC4 (Indiana)
Posts: 15

Posted:

I will update with details regarding the HOA meeting Sep 25. We are retired and moved to support our son's choice of college and get in-state tuition. During the stressful last six months, my husband was diagnosed with some issues. He planned to serve on the board and I just wanted to help us and the people in this neighborhood. That's all I can say for now. We're in a two-story home. It really will benefit us to move.

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