JamesC45 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posts: 16
Posted:
How does a HOA board deal with an owner who has posted a sign picturing a gun and warning that he is armed? Can we ask him to remove it from in front of his townhouse?
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Started by JamesC45 • 32 replies • 914 views
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RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
You might want to call the police, you think?
JamesC45 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posts: 16
Posted:
Is it against the law to post a sign like that? I tried to look up in the Davis Stirling but it seemed pretty broad on what is allowed.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Usually ONLY For Sale/Rent signs are allowed in HOA's. So this sign would violate the rules. So what does your documents say are your way of punishing those in violation? Do you have a fine schedule? The right to remove violation and send owner the bill? Or you going to find out the HOA lack any kind of comprehensive punishment enforcement?
Former HOA President
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posts: 354
Posted:
I would treat it the same way you would any other sign per your CC&Rs. Are homeowners allowed to put up other kinds of signs? If not, this is no different.
JamesC45 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posts: 16
Posted:
We allow for sale signs and signs from alarm companies as well as other signs which comply with City ordinances. I just don't want to start a war here!! He's a bit of a 'rights' person. i will discuss it with our manager to do the right thing.
PaaN
Posts: 219
Posts: 219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimM11 on 08/29/2018 7:21 AM
I would treat it the same way you would any other sign per your CC&Rs. Are homeowners allowed to put up other kinds of signs? If not, this is no different.
I would treat it the same way you would any other sign per your CC&Rs. Are homeowners allowed to put up other kinds of signs? If not, this is no different.
PERFECT
PaaN
Posts: 219
Posts: 219
Posted:
OP,
stop 'thinking'
read, understand, enforce any RESTRICTION in the CCRs
all else is Tauric Ka-Ka
(tauric, as in bull)
stop 'thinking'
read, understand, enforce any RESTRICTION in the CCRs
all else is Tauric Ka-Ka
(tauric, as in bull)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Are you on the board, James??
Do your CC&Rs (& city codes) permit only certain signs in front yards?
With TimM & PaaN, it sounds like your board simply write him a nice letter citing the CC&Rs or Rules & Reg to remove the sign. If he doesn't comply, follow your HOA's due process to invite him to a hearing, etc., and the board can rule that he remove the sign.
Do your CC&Rs (& city codes) permit only certain signs in front yards?
With TimM & PaaN, it sounds like your board simply write him a nice letter citing the CC&Rs or Rules & Reg to remove the sign. If he doesn't comply, follow your HOA's due process to invite him to a hearing, etc., and the board can rule that he remove the sign.
JamesC45 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posts: 16
Posted:
Thank you, Kerry. I am on the board. That is exactly what I have decided to do. I believe there may be something more specific in the R&r's but I don't have them readily available right now. Our manager will send a letter based on those R&r's
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posts: 354
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JamesC45 on 08/29/2018 7:40 AM
We allow for sale signs and signs from alarm companies as well as other signs which comply with City ordinances. I just don't want to start a war here!! He's a bit of a 'rights' person. i will discuss it with our manager to do the right thing.
We allow for sale signs and signs from alarm companies as well as other signs which comply with City ordinances. I just don't want to start a war here!! He's a bit of a 'rights' person. i will discuss it with our manager to do the right thing.
I guess it depends what those "other signs" are, then, and what your city ordinances say. So it's not clear to me if he is in violation or not.
PaaN
Posts: 219
Posts: 219
Posted:
The BOD may make rules and regulations governing COMMON ELEMENTS (assuming the actual 'Declaration' grants said authority)
HOWEVER
The BOB may NOT add any restrictions to 'fee simple' private property that are NOT in the 'restriction section' of the CCRs.
to repeat:
read ALL documents until you understand them
the BOD is in charge, NOT the management company which simply IMPLEMENTS their decisions
HOWEVER
The BOB may NOT add any restrictions to 'fee simple' private property that are NOT in the 'restriction section' of the CCRs.
to repeat:
read ALL documents until you understand them
the BOD is in charge, NOT the management company which simply IMPLEMENTS their decisions
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posts: 264
Posted:
I'm a big rights guy too and definitely love my guns. Heck, I even have a few on my fence (On the inside). That doesn't matter though. Most HOA's have restrictions on pretty much any signage other than "For Sale". Check out your CC&R's and send a proper notice accordingly. Easy.
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posts: 264
Posted:
Er... a few guns signs on my fence on the inside. "Due to the increased cost of ammunition there will be no warning shots". It's funny to us gun people. :-)
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
These townhouse yards are common area, right?? Or exclusive (limited) use common area?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 08/28/2018 10:43 PM
You might want to call the police, you think?
You might want to call the police, you think?
I love my guns too, but this is California, not Texas or other states where open carry is permissible. I would hate to have something happen from that individual and you did nothing. In many mass shootings, the signs were there, but everyone relied on someone else to take the lead.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
James,
How can you be a board member - director - and not have your documents?
How can you be a board member - director - and not have your documents?
PaaN
Posts: 219
Posts: 219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/29/2018 7:35 PM
James,
How can you be a board member - director - and not have your documents?
James,
How can you be a board member - director - and not have your documents?
Unfortunately, that is NOT an untypical situation
JamesC45 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posts: 16
Posted:
Because I'm not at home right now!
JamesC45 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posts: 16
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaaN on 08/29/2018 7:45 PM
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/29/2018 7:35 PM
James,
How can you be a board member - director - and not have your documents?
James,
How can you be a board member - director - and not have your documents?
Unfortunately, that is NOT an untypical situation
I'm not at home right now and I don't carry them with me. I have some on my iPad but not all.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
I'll retract my comment, then.
I presumed you had access since you were posting.
I presumed you had access since you were posting.
JamesC45 (Florida)
Posts: 16
Posts: 16
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/30/2018 9:35 AM
I'll retract my comment, then.
I presumed you had access since you were posting.
I'll retract my comment, then.
I presumed you had access since you were posting.
I noticed this sign as I was leaving my HOA. I received an email from a concerned owner. I checked the cc&r's which I have on my iPad and they referred to several Cal. Codes and City Ordinances which I did not have time to research. I do not have R&R on my ipad which I travel with.
I thought I might get a quick answer from this forum. However, I then called my manager and asked him to send a letter politely asking the HO to remove the offending sign.
I hope he isn't a member of the NRA!
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
The NRA left California, so I left the NRA.
PaaN
Posts: 219
Posts: 219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 08/30/2018 9:35 AM
I'll retract my comment, then.
I presumed you had access since you were posting.
I'll retract my comment, then.
I presumed you had access since you were posting.
D'OH
MarkM19 (Texas)
Posts: 1,459
Posts: 1,459
Posted:
James,
Just a suggestion for you. I would recommend you not use the word ( I ) when writing about this or any other Board decision. The Board should make these types of decisions and also share the responsibility if there is any kickback from this person. I always ask the property manager to use the words ( We or Our ) decision on topics. If the Board lets you make these calls then they are also giving you the right to include them.
Just a suggestion for you. I would recommend you not use the word ( I ) when writing about this or any other Board decision. The Board should make these types of decisions and also share the responsibility if there is any kickback from this person. I always ask the property manager to use the words ( We or Our ) decision on topics. If the Board lets you make these calls then they are also giving you the right to include them.
PaaN
Posts: 219
Posts: 219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaaN on 08/29/2018 7:43 AM
OP,
stop 'thinking'
read, understand, enforce any RESTRICTION in the CCRs
all else is Tauric Ka-Ka
(tauric, as in bull)
OP,
stop 'thinking'
read, understand, enforce any RESTRICTION in the CCRs
all else is Tauric Ka-Ka
(tauric, as in bull)
I'm out of this topic
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posts: 264
Posted:
I think we might be getting in the weeds here. Who cares if people are "concerned" with the nature of the sign? They're liberal gun hating idiots but that is completely beside the point. It is a sign the HOA likely has rules against, period. The sign could be about unicorns, rainbows and lollipops and it's still the same issue!
Heck, our CC&R's have very clear language about signage and they basically say "No Signs Allowed". It's a very common issue.
Heck, our CC&R's have very clear language about signage and they basically say "No Signs Allowed". It's a very common issue.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JaredC on 08/30/2018 11:03 AM
They're liberal gun hating idiots but that is completely beside the point.
They're liberal gun hating idiots but that is completely beside the point.
Is that what Texans thinks Californians are? I remember a slogan from "An Officer and a Gentleman" from Lou Gossett, something about who comes from Texas.
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posts: 264
Posted:
LOL, no. They're are plenty of solid people in California who don't have irrational fears of tools. BTW we have our fair share of gun haters even here in Texas! Regardless, signs of any type are almost always universally disallowed in HOA's and the process for the removal of those signs is probably fairly straight forward.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Jared,
I am a moderate by the standards of 1990 - and, now, almost by your definition a "liberal." I prefer the term progressive, btw. It is descriptive and generally apolitical.
Frankly, ya need to keep your political opinions out of this forum - if, for no other reason than to prevent accidentally calling people you don't know - and that you simply disagree with - "idiots."
I am a moderate by the standards of 1990 - and, now, almost by your definition a "liberal." I prefer the term progressive, btw. It is descriptive and generally apolitical.
Frankly, ya need to keep your political opinions out of this forum - if, for no other reason than to prevent accidentally calling people you don't know - and that you simply disagree with - "idiots."
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posts: 264
Posted:
I agree. This thread took a political turn before my comments and I just added fuel to the fire as it were. I'm perfectly happy to keep it on the subject of HOA concerns. That is why we are all here after all. :-)
CjC
Posts: 210
Posts: 210
Posted:
https://www.fredericknewspost.com/news/crime_and_justice/lake-linganore-residents-question-why-harassing-neighbor-was-not-removed/article_ddf9a3e1-23c7-5044-ad26-b548e902e3ef.html
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posts: 264
Posted:
Yip, CjC people have no clue just how powerless an HOA is and how truly evil people can exploit the law. It doesn't matter how many rules an HOA adopts to combat certain abusive behaviors they are limited at best. Heck, as stated in the article, even police are limited. Specifically police can only act on criminal acts and signs posted on your own property hardly meet that criteria.
In a COA/HOA environment the governing bodies have a bit more latitude. For example if someone posts a sign on common area property it can be removed immediately by the HOA. If the HOA is responsible for the exterior of a building they will generally have an easement to enter private property to remove those signs. Sadly the case in the news article involved a free standing home which makes things more difficult.
Just goes to show you how far bad people can really go if they want to buck the system. I know this from personal experience too. :-(
In a COA/HOA environment the governing bodies have a bit more latitude. For example if someone posts a sign on common area property it can be removed immediately by the HOA. If the HOA is responsible for the exterior of a building they will generally have an easement to enter private property to remove those signs. Sadly the case in the news article involved a free standing home which makes things more difficult.
Just goes to show you how far bad people can really go if they want to buck the system. I know this from personal experience too. :-(
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