Pennsylvania HOA's

Started by DennisH10 • 20 replies • 830 views

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DennisH10
Posts: 22

Posted:

I am having trouble finding info on any Pa statutes that may have a regulatory control on Pa HOA's. It is beyond my comprehension that HOA's boards anywhere and here in Pa especially are permitted to be basically dictators of the covenants, and arbitrarily enforcing them on individuals differently. In other words is it legal for an HOA to make requirements of one individual that they have no covenant basis for, and or have never enforced on another in the exact same issue? Any input appreciated ,, thanks, Denny

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Welcome to the HOA world. A HOA is a "club" of homeowners with a common interest. Each one is different and in different configurations. There isn't a "catch-all". Why would you really want that? A third uninterested party dictating how you can live? Please. I will take my individual CC&R's over that any time.

Former HOA President

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

An HOA isn't at all like a "club", it is closer to a government with elected leaders and generally mandatory "taxes".

Many states do regulate HOAs, and there are good reasons why they should. Sorry, I don't know about PA though.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Know nothing about PA either, except that the board meetings do not have to be open to members (homeowners) so secrecy MIGHT be prevalent.

Regarding fines and owner discipline, these can be in executive session in all states (I think). HOAs may not enforce nonexistent covenants. If they stry that stunt, you might pay your dues and/or the "fine" under pretest and try to figure out what to do about it.

They should enforce other violations equally, but ....some slip thought the cracks; there might be so many violations that the board doesn't not enforce all of them; there might have been a board action against some owners that you don't know about, etc.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Dennis

It is a given fact that when you join an HOA, you surrender some of your rights for the greater good of all and you agree to live by their rules ala Covenants and Bylaws.

You either get the Covenants/Bylaws changed to what you want of learn to live by them. The stste will not help you.

You agreed to the terms, so put on your big boy panties and learn to live within them.

JosephH2 (Pennsylvania)
Posts: 57

Posted:

http://www.legis.state.pa.us/WU01/LI/LI/CT/HTM/68/68.HTM

DennisH10
Posts: 22

Posted:

" the greater good of all " that is a very ambiguous saying, as it is usually defined by the agenda of the one saying it..

DennisH10
Posts: 22

Posted:

Thank you Joseph, that title 68 appears to hit the nail on the head ,, Thank you very much for that reference, as it will go along way toward putting this HOA I am in, in their place, at least "Legally" if they are / continue in applying their "rules on the fly" to me that they have never before in 24 years of existence never applied to anyone else.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DennisH10 on 08/26/2018 10:55 AM
" the greater good of all " that is a very ambiguous saying, as it is usually defined by the agenda of the one saying it..

Kind of like how when something goes wrong you'll find that the ones who don't want to play the "blame game" are usually the ones to blame.

You still agreed to the covenants and rules & regulations when you moved in. Whether it's ultimately for the greater good or the worship of demons is irrelevant. Contracts are a cherished and necessary thing in the world and I contend you give up no rights when you move into an HOA. You exercise your right to enter into a legally enforceable contract.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Say, Dennis, I'm curious about which article(s) & sections apply to your HOA. Please list.

DennisH10
Posts: 22

Posted:

Section 33 will be a good place to start

DennisH10
Posts: 22

Posted:

Here is a summary of just 1 of my HOA issues,
Covenant is HOA needs to approve all shrubbery changes ,, OK no big deal,, right

I submit my request to have a tree REMOVED ,, Great according to the rules,,, right ?

2 days later reply come back from board WE APPROVE YOUR TREE REMOVAL ,,, Great

a week later I mention to someone that I will bring in my own back hoe so that I can get the roots out and have that tree out in no time

OH MY !! YOU WOULD HAVE THOGHT THE SKY JUST FELL AND HIT SOME NO BRAINER ON THE HEAD

Crap hit the fan when this bunch hear my plan to bring in my own back hoe,, and then the response letter comes

1. Mr H you did not get permission to remove the roots, only the tree.

2. We will not approve you bring in your own back hoe it may damage our driveway.

With every NEW objection they keep completely expressing their Ignorance of how to remove a tree

1. IN 23 years , and hundreds of plants shrubs, trees been removed, and NEVER once did thy make an individual get a special approval to remove the root.

2. IN 23 years they never told anyone that they could not being a back hoe into the community

I guarantee it is going to get very ugly if they try to enforce these restrictions since they ALREADY gave me the approval to remove the tree IN WRITING,

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You want to bring your own back hoe to remove a tree and you do not see the problem with this? Uhm... There are liability issues out the wazoo! It's one thing to remove a tree and another to bring in heavy equipment to do so. Usually when you apply to remove a tree, they most likely expect licensed and insured contractor will be involved. It's a requirement for our HOA any contractor be licensed and insured. You are not licensed nor insured to do tree work or run a back hoe correct?

It may seem "simple" to you to just go out and "cut a tree down". It is NOT when you are in a HOA. That is because you put EVERYONE into a liability situation. It's being part of a larger group. What happens if you do cause damage? I've seen a backhoe leave tire marks across a driveway that one couldn't get out. Plus could put track marks in the lawn. It's not like it's a damage free piece of equipment.

Have to agree with the HOA, that you bringing in a back hoe is a BAD idea. If you were licensed and insured contractor and put it in the scope of work, then it may be okay. An uninsured homeowner doing their own work involving common area in a HOA? Heck no.

Former HOA President

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

BTW: When I've seen proper use of back hoe's, they use plywood under the tires. It prevents tire marks into the ground and tracking tire marks. Are you prepared to take those steps when operating?

Former HOA President

DennisH10
Posts: 22

Posted:

I have owned and operated a back hoe for 30 years,,, and i certainly know how to use it, in any situation. and in this one it will not be traveling over any areas other than paved road surfaces. I have formally use it to remove dozens of trees, and the only place it would be use in this HOA is on MY PROPERTY... and you like every one here know nothing , you all seem to know more about using a back hoe than i do, Put it this way,, if they enforce this on me,, my attorney will have them COMPELLED by court order to add a new covenant that states the NO BACK HOES ARE PERMITTED IN THE DEVELOPMENT. and then we will see how they all like digging holes by hand when something serious happens.

It appears that some HOA boards have really big egos, and seem to think that they are dictators, but they need to learn that the are not.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. I don't see where the HOA is in the wrong here by saying what they believe isn't the way they want a tree removed. Ripping a tree up wouldn't be my first choice of how to deal with roots. Trees go as deep as they go up. That seems to be one of the worst ways to rip up a tree.

Your property is to be CONFORMANT with your other neighbors in a HOA. There are rules set up to prevent neighbors from having their homes become eye sores. When you have a neighbor who decides to make their home out of the norm, it effects everyone. The purpose of a HOA is to make sure their property stays ATTRACTIVE to potential buyers. Having a neighbor with a ripped up hole in the yard, doesn't fall into that category.

Have to say, it's more on you here and your attitude against HOA's, than the actual HOA. The HOA does have a right to say "Hey I don't like that repair plan". Ripping a tree up with a back hoe? That's just a bit much with noise, damage potential, and what it may look like for months afterwards.

Former HOA President

DennisH10
Posts: 22

Posted:

It never ceases to amaze me if how many "authorities" there are on things that some people have no clue how to do.

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

try THIS on a 'cherry picker';

simultaneously:

raise load

lower load

retract boom

hint:

chin is involved (third lever)

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Dennis,

I think you’re gonna end up in court spending your money, and association money (and your money). And, only the attorneys will win.

Or, this is likely just nonsensical bluster on your part to make you think you are going to effect some change other than employing attorneys.

Sounds like you need to work with the association on a compromise solution - do you recall how to compromise?

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Forgot to ask, Dennis, that you check back in here and let us know what happens?

If we are off base, and/or massively wrong, I think we would like to know so we can adjust the advice we provide.

PaaN
Posts: 219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By PaaN on 08/27/2018 6:24 AM
try THIS on a 'cherry picker';

simultaneously:

raise load

lower load

retract boom

hint:

chin is involved (third lever)

darned no edit

boom

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