Problems at the pool

... pool staff, hired by the association. Do you have life-guards, pool management company? If so, they can provide staff to man the door (check passes, control behaviour, etc).

Jade,

There is no life guard and no pool staff other than the illegal alien that cleans the pool.

Dana

Out of the untold number of condos and apartments in our city and county area, not one has any lifeguards or regular staff.

All the polls have posted something similar to "no lifeguard on duty. swim at your own risk."

It would be more than uncommon to find a community here that had even a part-time guard.

We do not have an attendant either a our pool. Our insurance agent suggested that we put up a sign with rules for the pool; Dawn to Dusk, No glass in pool area, No rafts, No children under 14 without parental supervision, etc. This helps with the liability issue.

Also I would suggest a scan card system. It is waved before a lock then the gate opens. You can give the scan cards only to those whom you want to have access. We use this system for all the common elements entrances. It is also taken one step further.A computer makes note of when and where that card is used. They have a number associated with them. If there is a problem we can look at the time and date stamp on the computer.

My friend emailed me to say that the pool belongs to 3 buildings with 15 units each but a fourth building can use it also and that building (21 units) pays $15 per door.

They have a pass card, a basic laminated card. The key card idea sounds very good; is it expensive. The camera is also a great idea.

I did find an article of an association being sued (and losing) because a 2 1/2 year old walked thru the broken gate and drowned. The found evidence that the manager and the board knew that the gate latch was faulty.

Dana

Dana,

I don't know of many HOAs here in Orange County California that have life guards or full time staff at their pools. Most just have a ton of signs that say things like Private Property No Tresspassing, No Lifeguard on Duty, Swim at Your own Risk, No Diving, etc., etc. They should talk with their insurance carrier to make sure they have every sign that would be required, and a few more just in case!

Dwight's suggestion of some type of electronic access sytem is very good, not sure if they can afford it if only 45-65 families are members of the pool.

We also installed an electronic access system at our pool last spring, but we have 300 families that share the facility. The computer, software and installion was about $ 1,500, changing the gate lock from manual keys to electonically operated cost about $ 500, the fobs that were distributed to the members were about $ 8 each.

I must say that the system has worked great for the past 18 months. The software is programmed not to allow the gate to open after the pool has closed for the night, so that pretty much elimated the late night partying.

We also have the videotape security cameras, so everyone knows that if they bring Fido in for a swim, or bring in a dozen friends for a beer blast, it's going to be pretty easy to track them down from the videotapes and the computer data that records who's fob opened the gate.

A swimming pool is a MAJOR LIABILITY. No matter how high the fence, no matter how good the security, or anything else, I believe much more than adequate insurance is required. How many $millions might be awarded by a court if someone drowns and the HOA is found guilty? How many $thousands can each owner afford?

Down here in the South Counties do not mandate that pools are guarded. Now being from NJ where every pool has to have a guard, it was quite strange to me that the South does not mandate it.

In light of the above, I encourage our communities to have a lifeguard, especially those with high swimmer load with children. I also encourage the use of a key FOB which monitors the gate with the name and address of who is accessing it.

Dana, there are many options you could utilize without guards, posting of rules, mailing them to every Owner and tenant, hiring a gate monitor (a retired person works well for this job). Good luck

Hi Robert,

We have both a video monitoring system and a fob access system for our pool. Our video system was installed about six years ago, the fob system in the spring of 06.

Video recording systems have declined a lot in price over the past few years. You can now buy color cameras for less than we paid for black and white cameras. A commercial strength VCR is now around 400 dollars, less than half the cost of six years ago.

The newest thing in video recording is the hard drive recorder, a computer recorder with a massive hard drive that can record weeks of video at a time. The only drawback I see in the hard drive recorder is that to review it, someone has to sit at the computer and watch it. With our VCR system, we just take out the tape on a Monday, pop in another one and take the tape home to review at our leisure on a home VCR.

I'd recommend a four camera system because all four cameras can be recorded onto the videotape at the same time with a little $ 75 piece of hardware called a quad processor. It takes the feeds from the four cameras and puts each picture onto a quadrant of the videotape. If you watch the tape on a large home television, you can see everything quite clearly.

Cameras should be 150-200 each, the VCR around 400 and a quad processor about 75. Videotapes are about 12 bucks for a box of ten. The big unknown is the cost of installation. That's going to depend on where you want the cameras mounted and how hard it will be to wire them all back into the recording system.

For our pool access system, we went with the fobs over the swipe cards. The swipe cards are a lot cheaper, about $ 2 each compared with $ 8 each for the fobs. Our concern was that the swipe card reader can easily be destroyed by some idiot with a bottle of glue, so we went with the fob reader instead. The fob reader has no moving parts and doesn't need to be touched by the fobs, it shoots out a little radio wave to read the fob when the fob is waved within 8 inches of the reader. We're completing our second summer with the system and it's worked flawlessly so far.

If you're thinking of doing both systems at once, you may be able to get a discount on them. A lot of security access companies do both the access system and the video system, so you might to gets bids from several companies for each system individually and one for the complete project.

I will echo Dwight and Patricks post and take is a step further:

Dwight is correct with DVR systems you can view it from another location and depending on what you get there are many that are not motion activated cameras so you don't have to sit and watch endless hours of video, just when something happens. 4 weeks is a long time to store video, you can cut that down a lot to save some money. The great thing about this system is if something happens and you find it you can save that portion of the file.

I have dealt with several access systems at work and here is my advice based on my experience. Steer clear from codes, as Dwight said they will be given out and when it is caught it may be too late. Stick with something that is hard to lose, fobs are great because you can put it on your keychain.

We bought the access system and DVR together from a local security company, and the combined cost with installation and support agreement was around $10K. A bit pricey, but it has been worth it IMO.

I hope this doesn't violate the HOATalk posting guidelines about company info. The access control system is the "S2 Netbox" from S2 Security Corp. It it also accessible over the Internet so I can add users or lock down the pool from anywhere. It also has direct support for the DVR so that I can view the video feeds from the same web interface.

The DVR is a "Digital Sprite 2" from Dedicated Micros. Ours has support for up to 6 directly attached cameras (we are currently only using 4), but they also have models that support up to 9 or 16 cameras.

The web interface on the S2 box is simple to use, so it's easy to add users or disable access codes as needed. The DVR hasn't needed any maintenance yet other than accessing it occasionally to keep the internal clock in sync. The only real problem that we've had is the when the network router locked up after a brown-out and I couldn't get at either system. Had to power-cycle the router before I could get back in. So far both systems have been mostly trouble-free.

> A swimming pool is a MAJOR LIABILITY.

It's a terrible thing to live in fear.

So fill in the pool, take away the exercise equipment, padlock the barbeque, replace all the landscaping rocks with styrofoam.

That's why we have insurance, guys. And they won't sell it to us if they think it is likely we will have an accident. And if you don't think 3 million is enough, ask how much 10 million costs, I bet it's not a heck of a lot more because statistically speaking there aren't a lot of 3 million dollar awards.

In SC HOA swimming pool we to have issues. I would like input please. Recently we have been visited by previous renters. Neighboring children. Now we do not have keys nor fobs. It has become a free for all to whomever decides to come. No help from Board Members. No lifeguard or anyone monitoring anything. I had suggested solution of Keys distributed to Homeowners along with form to relinquish rites to pool while unit is being rented. Therefore renters may get key/ fob to enter pool, also to extend vinyl fence that can not be jumped! I was told by a wife of a board member that is discriminatory? She also said We are working with attorneys! Our pool has dhec sign which states 20 people,we are also 19 buildings of 12 units. Now if owner decided to visit pool and or their renters of say 5 then you have another issue of overload if several owners came and their renters. I hope to receive some input or answers to this issue. How do I show or try to prove to them this is the way to solve issue for all! Thank you

This post began in 2007 and a lot can change in 11 years - start a different thread with your question so you'll get updated information.