Enforcement of CCR wihtout HOA

Started by BrettV • 23 replies • 824 views

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BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

My wife and I started building a house in neighborhood. We haven't finished yet but when the house is finished it will look like the others in the neighborhood. We thought there were no restrictions when we bought the land but are being sued due to our current violations. We have every intention to be in 100% compliance once we are finished but the plantiffs don't care. We initially built a small section to live in and it is completed and permitted to live in by the city. They want us kicked out and to get into 100% compliance and then they will let us continue building. We have a lawyer and he is claiming, after reading the covenants the plantiffs have no right to sue. What I am curious about is if that is true? The covenants state clearly that the HOA is what shall enforce the restrictions but the HOA has never been formed. We only just want to be left alone to finishing building our house which the plans are now approved by the developer.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Attorneys will, in some cases, claim whatever will continue their business relationship.

In many states deeds have covenant connections ...if your deed does, you may have really stumbled into a mess. Almost every set of CCRs I’ve seen specifically forbid owners living in a component of a house while the House is being built - they also don’t allow house trailers, or campers, or RVs as temporary housing on the property.

You need to get the CCRs and the Bylaws, read and understand them, talk to your neighbors - talk to your neighbors - talk to your neighbors ... and, btw, why is there a developer involved - unless he still controls the neighborhood?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964

Posted:

CCRs can be enforced by a HOA or by the homeowners against each other, which sounds like what this person is trying to do. Usually, people try to resolve this stuff by talking to their neighbors first - did anyone come to you expressing specific concerns about the house before this lawsuit? If so, what was the response? If not, that's something I'd definitely bring up in court as a start.

If you haven't already done so, get an attorney to walk you through all this. I know lawsuits can be scary, but they can also be withdrawn if both parties come to an agreement before the hearing or the judge can toss it - or you could win.

I wonder, though, if something else is going on with the plaintiff - perhaps you can talk to a few of the neighbors and get some insight (you may be dealing with an asshat and sometimes simply pushing back is enough to get them to back off and mind their own business). Good luck!

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Forgot ...yes, in most cases, if your CCRs are deeded, then anyone in that same area covered by those same CCRs, probably has legal standing to ensure you comply.

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

We have tried to talk to the neighbors with no luck. The developer is still involved because he is the architectural control committee. We have all the restrictions but I do t know about any bylaws. The HOA was never formed due to the neighbor suing me building a house years ago that is different then all the other houses so all the neighbors just decided that it was pointless not to mention the myriad of other violations every single other owner has. I realize none of that really matters what I’m curious about is if the restrictions only allow for the HOA to enforce the restrictions does that mean the other homeowners have any right to sue? I just don’t have a warm and fuzzy with what direction my lawyer wants to go in.

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

We can get a majority support from the neighbors but I’m not exactly sure how to go about using that to our advantage. Like a temporary variance or something.

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

We got an anonymous letter complaining about some construction materials we had in our yard but we were still under construction. Nothing specific about covenant violations.

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

The neighbor wants to build a mother-in law suite where his garage is so he went and got an appraisal for a refinance well his value has fallen and he blames me but it’s not our fault we’ve only been in construction for a year. The two most recent sells in our neighborhood were big short sells.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Do you have a copy of your D, CCRs. Articles of Incorporation, if any? By laws?

Have you been to the county courthouse clerk office to get copies of anything recorded?

Btw - if you had been under construction for a year next to me, and, were living in some part of the partial house, with building construction materials all around, I might consider suing for relief.

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Look, I’m not saying what i did was right but I had no idea that I was breaking any rules. I know that’s no excuse to people who care more about other people’s business then about their own messes which they have many. It’s not our fault we flooded, lost everything and had no where to live and couldn’t find any builders due to the huge flood in Baton Rouge but I’m just looking for a little direction so we can get back on our feet. We have every intention of getting out of violations as quickly as possible but how does kicking us out of our house speed that up?

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Brett,

Sorry - I'm not sure your neighbors care about your issues, as much as they do about you following the rules related to their homes and property.

Once you have a good understanding (meaning you have copies of whatever docs there are) of your CC&Rs, Articles, By-laws, etc, let us know your thoughts, and we can then provide some recommendations on how to get through this.

Knowing the facts - i.e. the docs - will allow you a better understanding of your options. In the meantime, I would recommend you try and work with anyone in the neighborhood so they know your extenuating circumstances.

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Yeah I know they don’t care. I was trying to research what I could do with other neighbors support. I know for a fact we can get a majority support for pretty much anything. we are close friends and family with 60% of the neighbors but I don’t know how to use it to our advantage. I’ve attached a copy of the restrictions and as I’ve stated earlier it says that on 23 the HOA shall enforce the restrictions so my lawyer wants to use that as an argument of exception. It seems most people here think that the neighbors still have the right to enforce restrictions and I was asking for any advice from someone who may have some tips so we can buy sometime to get in compliance.

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GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I can't open the attachment ...

If you and your neighbors have deeds that connect you together legally under a D, CC&R, they will likely have the ability to enforce and have legal standing to do so.

There are others here far more qualified than I regarding legal issues, but imo the attorney is looking through a very small potential loophole.

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Yeah. Honestly you would just waste your time reading through it anyway ive read it a hundred times and it’s pretty straight forward. I was thinking the same thing as to how the lawyer is approaching it. I was looking at trying to get an variance but I don’t know how to do it.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Brett,

To be clear, you are talking about a doc called something like, Declaration, Covenants, Conditions and Restrictions?

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

It’s called river highlands phase 3 parts 1 and 2 Subdivision restrictions. Now due to businesses apartments and rental properties past our subdivision there was suit that kept the subdivision from putting up a gate and basically caused all the plans for our parts to never form an HOA. No fees have ever been collected, the private road is crumbling and the entrance sign is completely collapsed and overgrown. It’s not like I’m living in a very nice developed subdivision.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Restrictions sometimes refer to a subset of CCRs ....

Anyone from LA?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Question - What is the lawsuit about and whom brought it? The details are still a bit loose. You say the Developer is still in control. If so, then they are the "HOA". If the HOA has been turned over to the owners, then your neighbors (and you) are the "HOA". Your now approved by the Developer to finish building. So I assume they are not the one's bringing a lawsuit.

Now, if there are CC&R's in place it is possible that an individual wants to enforce the restrictions against you. For example: You build a garage and restrictions say no separate garages. They may sue you to enforce the restriction for building the garage. That's not necessarily the HOA but a HOA member.

The person who is mad over the mother in law suite, doesn't seem to know what factors go into refinancing/home values. Not a huge surprise. HOA's often are believed to be involved with keeping one's home values. They don't. Home values are based on REAL numbers. Which would have been those short sale houses and other houses that sold in last 6 months. New construction is more of a good thing. It would also be the Rental rate that effects re-finance rates and loan programs available. High rental rates can cause re-finance rates to go up and less loan programs available to potential buyers. Does this HOA have a rental issue?

The lawyer isn't right about this person not having a right to sue. Everyone has the right to sue. The issue really is do they have a case? The court can ONLY make one "whole". So the court can decide to enforce the restriction against you if you lose. It also can decide the case has no merit. They can also decide who pays the legal costs.

If it were me, I'd tell them to send me the paperwork to go to court. I will be waiting on it. They don't have the right to get my social security number. So that will prevent some damages to your credit. Plus they need to disclose to you their proof of their claim. It's not like TV. There is a disclosure period of which everyone has to put their cards on the table. Once that is done, then I would decide if it's worth making changes or just brushing it off in laughter.

Former HOA President

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

I don’t know anything about the Louisiana legal system, but I do know you should avoid going to court - every dollar sent there could be spent fixing your house ...faster.

Still don’t have an answer from you regarding whether there are CCRs, and whether the restrictions you talk to are subsets of the CCRs .. or whether this is Louisiana speak for CCRs.

If you can, make peace, and finish construction quickly.

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

We’ve tried to make peace. I’ve tried real hard to not villianize the plantiffs and I have video to corroborate some of the things done to us. Without getting into it we’ve had damage and harassment all caught on video but we want to keep it civil and friendly, we are trying to kill them with kindness. I realize there are always two sides to every story so I really don’t want to paint them as bad guys. All my wife and I want is to build our house and get out violation as quickly as humanly possible. Would a signed petition from everyone else in the neighborhood be helpful? I know I can get 60-80% support. Also if no HOA was formed and the developer still owns a lot does that mean he is still technically the HOA?

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

The lawsuit is an injunction of relief and it is two of my adjacent neighbors. There was no HOA ever formed due to the multitude of violations on the street and the developer never enforcing them and so we spoke to the developer, he is filthy filthy rich he couldn’t care less about what we are doing and also understands that we flooded so he said he will look the other way. When I say my lawyer said they don’t have the right to sue is an inaccurate statement he is saying they don’t have sufficient merit due to not being the HOA and no formal complaints being brought to us prior to the suit. Hopefully that clears it up a bit.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808

Posted:

Brett,

Do you have CC&Rs? By-laws? Articles of Incorporation?

You may have answered and I missed ... I did see your comment referring to "restrictions."

Have you been to the county courthouse to research documents? Perhaps they are available on-line?

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Yeah it’s what I linked but won’t open. Yes we’ve been to the courthouse and that’s what I was given. It lists the restrictions for River highland estates have 3 parts 1 and 2. Lots 92-110. I own 104. 105 and 107 are the people suing me. As far as I can tell the rights have never been handed over to the lot owners.

BrettV (Louisiana)
Posts: 13

Posted:

Sorry as in rights I mean control over HOA appointments etc.

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