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BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Team,

One member who lives in my neighborhood does not like what the rest of the people who live in the neighborhood have decided to do. Which is to ban public school buses from driving on our private road. He has taken offense to this and told me he would not allow us to vote and his kid was never going to wait at the entrance for the bus like every other neighborhood.

What he has done is paid the annual dues for vacant lot owners and in return proxy hoarded their votes. This is legal. He’s now made himself president and has more than double the amount of votes than those living in the neighborhood.

He has vowed that if we all go quietly nothing else will happen. If we don’t, he vows destruction.

I have been contacted by every member who owns a home and they are frightened out of their minds. I have told them we will meet with the new president and explain our position. There are cries to never pay dues again, never follow rules again, and no ones helping anything until he resigns and gives them back their right to vote.

What in the world can be done?

PaaN
Posts: 219
Posted:
? How has anyone lost their 'right to vote' ?

The fact that they have been out-voted makes no never mind.

The new president, however, must follow the same governing documents as the old.

If the Board of Directors votes 'no busses' on the commonly owned roads the pres. can NOT over-ride the vote.

HOWEVER

Y'all may need an attorney to over-ride the 'bully'.
CjC
Posts: 210
Posted:
You need to speak to the vacant lot owners and see if you can convince them to see your side and give you the proxies. We are a member run HOA but the developer still owns a majority of the lots and can "outvote" us on any issue if he wishes.
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
Just out of curiosity, what's the reason for the prohibition, and how far do children have to walk to get to the bus?

In my HOA, they have to catch the bus at the entrance as well, but it's what the district decided to do and we've never gotten involved.
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
The members aren’t goin to follow covenants or pay dues any more. What can he do? Use the $3,000 in our bank to sue all of them?
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
People are concerned the buses damage the road. They were voting tomorrow to ban them. The walk is 1/4 mile or less.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
For what length of time did the people who gave him proxies turn over their voting rights?
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Brent, I looked through your other thread and had neglected to ask about this before. You said he pays $150 total for 20 lots? 20 votes but only one assessment fee?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Inspired by Tim, lobby the school district to have the bus pick-up at the entrance. Will save it $$.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/17/2018 8:54 AM
Inspired by Tim, lobby the school district to have the bus pick-up at the entrance. Will save it $$.

They can't win the internal vote about this, though.

From the other thread:

"Basically, the person he’s paying off has 20 empty lots. There are only 13 homeowners out of 72 lots.

He basically wins every vote when he secures proxy for the empty lots, he can immediately vote me out of office if he wanted, vote himself president, and just start passing whatever he wants whether the other 12 owners want or not.

Yes, rest of the neighborhood wants something. This guy doesn’t. He’s buying the votes of the empty lot people who don’t care about the votes one way or the other."
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
They don't have to if the district decides they don't want buses to go through the neighborhood. Prohibiting it is one thing; requiring that they do it is another.

Sometimes the best way to deal with an HOA issue is not to deal with the HOA at all and work with an outside party to render the issue irrelevant. However, that wouldn't solve the larger issue of one person running the HOA.
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Yessir. Our dues were setup by the original developer who owns most of the lots so he would only pay $150 total. Our dues are per owne to suit the developer. After 17 years, the roads are shot and we have no money because of this arrangement. Our options are to prevent further damage.
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
The principal of the high school lives in our neighborhood and is the one who first motioned to ban the buses. He has no problem banning them.

Please note. NC requires written approval for public buses to drive on private roads. We have no written agreement. I was only holding the vote in the first place because it was motioned. We could have just called the bus garage without a vote. But I don’t want to be that kind of person. I like being adult and civilized. But it completely backfired because of this individual.

Other neighbors have already called the bus garage on their own demanding the buses stop regardless of the HOA. They are scared of the dues being raised to inappropriate level by new president and because we don’t have the votes we are all up a creek. Thus their decision to not pay dues anymore or follow the rules. As a community standing against this guy.

JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrentS5 on 08/17/2018 9:18 AM
Yessir. Our dues were setup by the original developer who owns most of the lots so he would only pay $150 total. Our dues are per owne to suit the developer. After 17 years, the roads are shot and we have no money because of this arrangement. Our options are to prevent further damage.

OK so here is the part I am not understanding. How much is dues for an empty lot?
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posted:
Do garbage trucks drive on these roads? Do delivery trucks drive on these roads? How fragile are these roads that they can't stand up to normal use? A school bus isn't a tank.

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Doesn’t the board elect the prez?

How can anyone make themselves prez simply by having more member votes ... unless the membership elects officers?
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
So he didn't buy several vacant lot votes, he bought one guy's? One guy has 20 lots, was behind on his one assessment for $150 and let his 20 votes be bought for that? For the new guy to turn around and cost him a lot more than $150?

Does that guy live there? (The actual owner of the 20 votes).

This part confuses me. In one place it says one vote per owner, no matter how many lots, and in another place it says $150 per improved lot.

I think clarity on this would be helpful. This isn't the only vote that will take place. This one guy with 20 votes is going to continue to matter.

BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
You have 20 vacant lots you have 20 votes. You pay $150 total. You only pay more for ā€œimprovedā€ lots.
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Update to this story. This person is not voting themselves president. They are voting the hate filled corner cutting unlicensed contractor who paid for 20 lots, has always had someone else pay his dues, and has built five houses with original developer permission not the HOA permission.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
My question? What does the HOA CC&R's say about voting rights? Don't you have to be an owner and not just paying the fees for that owner? For us, you don't get more votes because you paid someone else's dues. Your still one owner per lot. We don't do proxy voting. Just one vote per lot.

If the rules have changed, then how did they? Did they get filed? Were they distributed for a vote to the membership to agree to them? How is this accepted as the "rules"? Where is it in black and white?

Former HOA President
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Everyone is an owner. The original developer has a lot of lots and therefore votes. A unlicensed contractor ruining and threatening our neighborhood also has lots of lots and votes. And then this guy who has paid their dues and in return those people have signed him as their proxy.
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
We have no other choices. I’ve talked to three lawyers. Nothing is illegal.

So civil disobedience is the only course of action. No dues will be paid, no one will follow the rules, and the buses that this guy was protecting will not be allowed back on our streets. So begins a very petty and sad war.

JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 08/17/2018 4:40 PM
My question? What does the HOA CC&R's say about voting rights? Don't you have to be an owner and not just paying the fees for that owner? For us, you don't get more votes because you paid someone else's dues. Your still one owner per lot. We don't do proxy voting. Just one vote per lot.

If the rules have changed, then how did they? Did they get filed? Were they distributed for a vote to the membership to agree to them? How is this accepted as the "rules"? Where is it in black and white?

You don't allow proxy voting? I'm pretty sure it's impossible not to allow.
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Yes we allow proxy voting. That’s how he has accumulated this many votes. It’s all legal.

Nothing we can do but band together and pray.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Again, how was he elected prez?

Usually Boards elect officers ....
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
We only have prez vp and secretary.

Bylaws say they can be removed at any time for any reason by majority vote.

He has double our votes.

He wins?
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
President is elected by Board?
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Don’t think we have a board. We get together as a community (9-12 of us), take roll call of votes to ensure we have a quorum (13 votes required), motion to start the meeting, second the motion, motion to vote for prez, second the motion, and take count of yays and nays including proxies or ballots if that’s the case. Announce the decision record it and move on.

No one has questioned and the lawyers I’ve spoken to can not find anything illegal.

We may not be doing the meeting correctly but he has the votes. I have letters from the vacant lot members giving him the right to vote as their proxy.

BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
9 members meets the 13 vote quorum requirement because some members own multiple lots. You get 1 vote per lot.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Cmon, I’m leading you ....are your officers elected by the directors, who were elected by the members?
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
No one knows who directors are. We only have three positions.
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
So we have never operated our neighborhood with a board of directors. Only officers. We have never voted in a board.

I just reread our bylaws and it clearly says we elect the directors and they elect the president.

We don’t have a board currently. We only have the three officer positions.
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
This gives me hope. I have informed the neighborhood we will not vote on who the president will be tomorrow. We will vote in our first three board of directors with three year terms. Once elected these three people will then goose the three officers with one year terms.

This ensures six people run our neighborhood. Not just one guy.

This has given us hope.
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Elect* not goose. Dumb phone.
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
We will postpone the vote if we must. We will send a new letter and meeting request letting everyone have a chance to vote for directors.

What this stops is this persons attmept to control our neighborhood.

We may have been running the neighborhood wrong but we will fix it and run it 100% to bylaws going forward. We won’t accept anything else.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Membership elects three directors for three years and then they appoint three other directors?

Very odd ... are you sure your bylaws say to do this?
BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
You read my statement incorrectly.

Membership elects three directors. The directors then choose the officers (prez, vp, sec). This is what the bylaws state. Sounds exactly what someone said above as wel.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrentS5 on 08/18/2018 6:14 AM
You read my statement incorrectly.

Membership elects three directors. The directors then choose the officers (prez, vp, sec). This is what the bylaws state. Sounds exactly what someone said above as wel.

Right. 3 people are voted in by membership, and then those three people vote among themselves who will be what officer, not appointing 3 other officers.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Sorry - misread.

Cool - you can now decide who is President. You can likely fire the current President as well.
PaaN
Posts: 219
Posted:
The membership vote will INCLUDE any proxies held by 'Mr. Wonderful'.

Soooo, the resulting BOD may very be 'straw figures' at Mr. Wonderful's beck and call.

Proxies are proxies - a majority is a majority.

Welcome to the wonderful world of Politics.

BrentS5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 41
Posted:
Yessir thank you soooo much.

Last question. WHEN can we vote in the board? Currently we have no admin people because we have all resigned.

The members believe they are voting on buses and raising dues.

Sounds like I need to take charge let everyone know we cannot conduct business because we have no board.

That’s the question. Can we then vote on board members or do we have to send new letters with new meeting to vote the bod in ?
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Brent I mean no offense, I promise. But we are not even positive what your docs say, exactly how the assessments work, etc. It keeps changing. I understand that is because you are learning and each day or sometimes hour you learn more, but a lot of these questions we really need clarity on your docs.

They do not say anything about additional officers, correct? The norm would be that 3 BOD members are elected by the membership and then those three vote among themselves who would be what officer position.

At the present time there is no board? You and (were there others?) resigned? This guy has not held a vote yet on BOD members?

JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BrentS5 on 08/18/2018 6:59 AM
Yessir thank you soooo much.

Last question. WHEN can we vote in the board? Currently we have no admin people because we have all resigned.

The members believe they are voting on buses and raising dues.

Sounds like I need to take charge let everyone know we cannot conduct business because we have no board.

That’s the question. Can we then vote on board members or do we have to send new letters with new meeting to vote the bod in ?

You had sent out a notice for a meeting to vote on buses and so forth. When is that scheduled?

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