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SS12 (Tennessee)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Can the HOA dictate what I can have on my porch for the sake of the Common Scheme? Homeowner's own their land in a Planned Urban Development. There are restrictions as to what you can have in the mulched areas and concrete area in your yard, but no where in the restrictions or bylaws is there anything discussed as personal property being subject to approval. It is understood that maintaining your building to the common scheme is required as well as not having trash or other junk stored on the exterior of the property and only certain things are allowed in the mulch and concrete area (sidewalk up to front door and driveway)

So the ACC and BOD sent out guidelines to what is allowed in our mulched areas and states that we can have certain things on our porches, but they will be reviewed and approved for compliance to the common scheme. (the guidelines seem to be more restrictive along with things added that are not in the restrictions, so if the details are being changed,should the homeowners vote to make a amendment to change those items?)

FROM OUR ByLaws: (I believe that the common scheme control is only over the landscaping and anything they require approval for which is detailed)

Common Scheme. The common scheme contributes to the value of the individual Lot(s) and the necessity to enforce the common scheme.

Plan Submission. Buildings, fences walls or other structures shall not be commenced, erected or maintained upon the Property, nor shall any exterior addition, modification, change or alteration therein be made until the plans and specifications showing the nature, kind, shape, height, materials, location of such building, fence, wall, other structure, and any landscaping, have been submitted to and approved in writing as to the harmony and conformity with the exterior design and location of surrounding structures or by an Architectural Control/Review Committee comprised of three (3) or more representatives appointed by the Board of Directors of the Association.

Completion Review. Upon completion of buildings, fences, walls or other structures, and any associated landscaping. The same Committee of the Association shall have the power necessary to continue the enforcement of the common scheme, to make any necessary rule or take any step that the same Committee or the Board of Directors of the Association deem necessary to require maintenance, modification, repair or replacement of any buildings, fences, walls or other structures, and to manage or control landscaping to limit Association expense or to maintain the common scheme.

Landscaping. Landscaping contributes to the uniform common scheme. Therefore the Board of Directors of the Association may institute any rule or regulation necessary in the management and control of the planting and maintenance of plants and associated elements.

JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posted:
Every situation is unique. First, are you in a town home or a free standing home?

Generally speaking the answer is Yes your hoa has every right to exercise a degree of control about the appearance of your property from the exterior. No, they cannot remove your personal property however they can usually fine you for not removing it yourself if it does not conform to their hopefully reasonable standards.
SS12 (Tennessee)
Posts: 3
Posted:
We are in a Planned Urban Development (PUD) which are attached Condos and we own our land. The restrictions only reference what can be in the mulched area and concrete area of our yard. which are attached Condos and we own our land.
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posted:
Gotcha. Condo and townhome HOA's alike will generally be much more strict regarding enforcement of this rule and for good reason. But let's look at part of the rule:

...and to manage or control landscaping to limit Association expense or to maintain the common scheme."

The key words that hit me are "to manage or control...or to maintain the common scheme". That's significantly broad. Perhaps you want to put in a very nice pedestal bird bath. Maybe no one else wants that. So should that be allowed? Perhaps. It's up to the HOA. Maybe the board members like how it looks and decide to allow it in hopes other people will put them in too. Maybe not. Or maybe you want to plant an oak tree 2' away from the foundation which is not a problem today but 20 years from now that trees root system is affecting your foundation and that of your neighbors so the HOA says "No".
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Common theme is the catch all phrase. Like it or not, it covers everything.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We're a high rise condo building with balconies, patios & decks deeded to owners. Most are balconies of about 100 sf.

BUT, in our CC&Rs, they are defined as exclusive use common areas. (Another term seems to be limited use common area.) This means that only I may use my balcony, but the HOA can make rules about what can be on it. So, for instance, only furnishings in good repair must be on it. No bikes, cleaning implements, exercise equipment etc. may be stored on them. Nothing may be thrown or washed off of them, etc.

Is it possible, SS, that your porches are exclusive or limited use common areas?

In addition, we may not penetrate the balcony walls, rails or ceilings in order to avoid water intrusion.

And like many HOAs, rules can be made about the colors of our separate-property window coverings.

I think Jared plucked out the important phrase: "...and to manage or control landscaping to limit Association expense OR to maintain the common scheme." (My emph.)

Curious: What do you want on your porch that you think we couldn't be permitted?
SS12 (Tennessee)
Posts: 3
Posted:
I really don't have anything out of the ordinary or crazy color, just your basic 2 chairs and a table, but we own our entire lot and no where does it state in the HOA documents that there are restrictions on my front porch. I am more concerned for my neighbors that have more beachy looking chairs or a few other styles that don't stand out, but maybe the ACC might have a problem with. Unfortunately, up to this point many of us feel that the ACC have been bullies. We are a new phase and so far the ACC is on our new phase, when they themselves are not in compliance on several bylaws. I have been asked to run for President, but I will make that decision closer to the election.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
As everyone has said, your HOA probably can regulate what's on your porch. HOA documents don't always address every single issue that can come up - it would be too large and no one would read it (too many don't read what's already there!) And it shouldn't have to - there's probably language elsewhere in your documents granting the board authority to add additional rules as long as they don't override the documents. In this case, one of the board's responsibilities is to ensure homeowners maintain the overall look and design of the community - that that would include your porch.

I notice you didn't describe your 2 chairs and table look like. It's one thing to have, say, a rocking chair on the porch (similar to the front of a Cracker Barrell restaurant) , but some people put out stuff that was never intended to be used outdoors. Did you grab a spare table and two mismatched chairs and place them on your porch? That could be the key to all this. The "beachy" looking chairs, on the other hand are intended to be used outside and that could be why you've received a letter.

If that letter includes information about appeal rights, I suggest you use them and make your argument there - perhaps the board should be a little more specific on what they're getting at regarding what's appropriate or not on the porches, and your case could be what sets that off.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Let me ask the question another way... What if your neighbor puts out a stuffed dead horse on the front porch? Would NOT want rules to regulate that? So why can't the rules you want applied to a neighbor NOT apply to you?

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Also another way to ask the question: Does your HOA have rules about roof colors/materials? Or paint color of the THs? What about the floor surface of your front porch? With sheila, I'm thinking there's somewhere else in your documents that you should be looking.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
This is a source of controversy here. The rules allow the BOD to deem what is sightly or unsightly to them. I've seen proper outdoor furniture like a small table and two chairs deemed unsightly, and of course that resident then points out other people's and asks what is the difference?

And for some reason, someone constantly turns in my DS neighbor for her tasteful Holiday decorations or God forbid she lets a plant die, and 2 seconds later she would get a notice about her empty pot, which is a very nice looking pot on it's own.

Other people for a decade at least point to one lady with a plethora of decorations to her porch to say why can she have all that and I can't have mine?

IDK the answer. If she got a waiver or what. One man has a billion potted plants in addition to the area a BOD at one time gave him permission to maintain, so people point to him if they get a notice for too many potted plants.

I imagine all that is a little bit of a nightmare to the board. Trying to find a balance.
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
It's controversial in my HOA as well, because so much of it is subjective and gets down to personal tastes. For example, some homeowners favor a more rustic/DIY decoration style with homemade planters, furniture, etc that others think looks junky, even though it's technically compliant with the rules as written. Toys/wading pools are another one that we've gone back and forth on -- our rules prohibit them from being left out overnight, but I worry that it's an FHA complaint waiting to happen, especially since we don't have a playground or other dedicated space for children to play.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
De Gustibus Non Est Disputandum
PainintheA
Posts: 77
Posted:
De gustibus non est disputandum, or de gustibus non disputandum est, is a Latin maxim meaning "In matters of taste, there can be no disputes". The phrase is commonly rendered in English as "There is no accounting for taste(s)." The implication is that everyone's personal preferences are merely subjective opinions that cannot be right or wrong, so they should never be argued about as if they were.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Our rules don't permit toys to be stored on balconies. In our 200+ units, there maybe are 5 kids under 10. Suddenly, a bright magenta 5" x 5" plastic or inflatable playhouse is on a balcony -- the condo has a 18-month old in it. I dunno, if anyone else raises a fuss, I'll (board member) support our rule.

On the other hand, a white wrought iron table with glass top, 4 chairs, and a teacart are totally rusted on another balcony. A true eyesore. Rules s ay furniture must be in "good repair." I might just have to report that one as it's gotten worse in the past year. Selective enforcement??
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/09/2018 1:15 PM
Our rules don't permit toys to be stored on balconies. In our 200+ units, there maybe are 5 kids under 10. Suddenly, a bright magenta 5" x 5" plastic or inflatable playhouse is on a balcony -- the condo has a 18-month old in it. I dunno, if anyone else raises a fuss, I'll (board member) support our rule.

On the other hand, a white wrought iron table with glass top, 4 chairs, and a teacart are totally rusted on another balcony. A true eyesore. Rules s ay furniture must be in "good repair." I might just have to report that one as it's gotten worse in the past year. Selective enforcement??

I think it is. I mean, at least 'in good repair' is more objective, but it's still allowing some to break the patio rules and not others.

TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 08/09/2018 1:15 PM
Our rules don't permit toys to be stored on balconies. In our 200+ units, there maybe are 5 kids under 10. Suddenly, a bright magenta 5" x 5" plastic or inflatable playhouse is on a balcony -- the condo has a 18-month old in it. I dunno, if anyone else raises a fuss, I'll (board member) support our rule.

They used to be a non-issue in our HOA, just because almost nobody had small children. But over time, the demographics have changed and we have more families with children than we used to and fewer singles/young couples/retirees. So I think it's a matter of time before we get challenged on it. I can see both sides of the issue.

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