who can attend the fining committee?

Started by RobinC • 10 replies • 5840 views

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RobinC (Florida)
Posts: 5

Posted:

I am a director of an HOA in Florida and would like to know if it is
permissable for our Management Company to take minutes at the fining
committee. It seems half the board states they can not attend and the
other half says they can. Is it a conflict of interest if our management company attends? If so, who can give us the minutes for our
next HOA meeting?

DaneC (California)
Posts: 210

Posted:

720.303 Association powers and duties; meetings of board; official records; budgets; financial reporting.--
(2) BOARD MEETINGS.--A meeting of the board of directors of an association occurs whenever a quorum of the board gathers to conduct association business. All meetings of the board must be open to all members except for meetings between the board and its attorney with respect to proposed or pending litigation where the contents of the discussion would otherwise be governed by the attorney-client privilege. Notices of all board meetings must be posted in a conspicuous place in the community at least 48 hours in advance of a meeting, except in an emergency. In the alternative, if notice is not posted in a conspicuous place in the community, notice of each board meeting must be mailed or delivered to each member at least 7 days before the meeting, except in an emergency. Notwithstanding this general notice requirement, for communities with more than 100 members, the bylaws may provide for a reasonable alternative to posting or mailing of notice for each board meeting, including publication of notice, provision of a schedule of board meetings, or the conspicuous posting and repeated broadcasting of the notice on a closed-circuit cable television system serving the homeowners' association.

Seems like the sentence "All meetings of the board must be open to all members except for meetings between the board and its attorney with respect to proposed or pending litigation where the contents of the discussion would otherwise be governed by the attorney-client privilege." says it all.

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

Robin, if the Board is the fining committee they can go into executive session at a Board meeting to conduct a Hearing regarding a fine. The action to be taken can be established after the executive session during the Board meeting. Thus, no minutes are required to be taken during the executive session. It is up to the Board to decide whether or not to include the managing agent in the executive session. If they are involved in establishing a violation for which a fine is being considered, they must be present to testify as needed.

JamesC (Maryland)
Posts: 282

Posted:

Roger:
We have called two homeowners to appear before the board for a violation hearing this Tuesday. They are each scheduled for fifteen minutes before our regular monthly board meeting begins.
We do not permit homeowners to attend the violation hearings, so are you saying taking minutes of these hearings are not mandatory, or even necessary?
Since we publish the BOD meeting minutes on our web site, if we take minutes during the hearings should we, or should we not, publish the results of the hearings on the site? (Althrough we have taken minutes during past violation hearings we have never published those results before.

Jim

RobertR1 (South Carolina)
Posts: 5,164

Posted:

Robin, Just a suggestion but I sure would think about re-naming the "Fining Committee>". You don't fine everyone do you. Maybe "The Appeals Panel", would be better. Anyone violating a covenant (supposedly) should have a hearing anyway. I hope you have a "Fine Structure" for violations to keep things uniform. I am not even sure that your state laws would allow such a function. A fair hearing, yes, then maybe an appropriate fine. But you could be violating your Master Deed by the formation of a fining committee. That reeks of a income producing venture, which is probably not allowed. IMHO

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

We have a Grievance Committee that imposes fines. FL Statue 720 specifically states that the BOD cannot impose fines. Any homeowner can attend a hearing as per FL720. Our BOD do not usually attend these meetings, but any or all may. If a BOD attends they have no say in the hearing or the outcome. Minutes are taken by one of the appointed committee members and then given to the PM to put in our minutes book. Minutes are never published.

Our attorney in clarifying this said that this is an autonomous committee. In our committee the members take this job very seriously. A member will recluse himself if a friend comes before them for an infraction.

FL720.305

"A fine or suspension may not be imposed without notice of at least 14 days to the person sought to be fined or suspended and an opportunity for a hearing before a committee of at least three members appointed by the board who are not officers, directors, or employees of the association, or the spouse, parent, child, brother, or sister of an officer, director, or employee. If the committee, by majority vote, does not approve a proposed fine or suspension, it may not be imposed."

LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526

Posted:

NancyD1..... HHMMM..... you have brougt something to my attention that escaped me in the past with regards to THE BOD MAY NOT IMPOSE A FINE... I live in an HOA in the Great State of Florida also...... When we have an infraction , the violation is brought to the attention of our management committee ( volunteers ) .... We have a CAM that lives in our community and the committee is there by direction of the BOD to give him guidance as to the operation of the community.... They have a meeting about the violation, then make a recommendation to the BOD that a fine be imposed.... Then at the monthly BOD meeting, the violation hearing is placed on the agenda and the BOD hears all sides , and if found to be in violation OUR BOD then imposes a fine of let's say $50.00 for wreckless driving... they ( BOD ) then tell the violator they are free to appeal the fine to our appeals commitee... So, if I read and understand what the Statute states our BOD is not allowed to impose the fine...that we should have seperate violation committee and an appeals commitee ? Could you expand on this for me some more PLEASE and THANKS bunches as always LindaC

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067

Posted:

James, first of all I would not recommend the Board be the Hearing committee unless it is a very small HOA. And if the Board is the Hearing committee it is best not to have the Hearing during a Board meeting. IMO, after hearing the arguments the committee should excuse the alledged violator and make a decision. Then a written notice of the Hearing committees decision should be sent.

Of course this is not how many Hearings are conducted. Often they are done during a Board meeting without an executive session with the decision made after hearing the arguments. My personal opinion is this is not proper procedure but when done the name of the violator should not be in the minutes. Look to your state statutes, if any, for guidance beyond your By-laws and Rules and Regulations.

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By LindaC3 on 08/17/2007 7:43 PM
NancyD1..... HHMMM..... you have brougt something to my attention that escaped me in the past with regards to THE BOD MAY NOT IMPOSE A FINE... I live in an HOA in the Great State of Florida also...... When we have an infraction , the violation is brought to the attention of our management committee ( volunteers ) .... We have a CAM that lives in our community and the committee is there by direction of the BOD to give him guidance as to the operation of the community.... They have a meeting about the violation, then make a recommendation to the BOD that a fine be imposed.... Then at the monthly BOD meeting, the violation hearing is placed on the agenda and the BOD hears all sides , and if found to be in violation OUR BOD then imposes a fine of let's say $50.00 for wreckless driving... they ( BOD ) then tell the violator they are free to appeal the fine to our appeals commitee... So, if I read and understand what the Statute states our BOD is not allowed to impose the fine...that we should have seperate violation committee and an appeals commitee ? Could you expand on this for me some more PLEASE and THANKS bunches as always LindaC

Linda,

The violation is written up by our PM. The PM sends out a notice that they are in violation of whatever and they have 15 days to correct it or their violation goes to Grievance. There are extenuating circumstances and if the HO presents it to the PM and it is reasonable the PM may extend the 15 days.

Only a deeded HO appears before the committee. He pleads his case. The fine is solely at the committee's discretion. They usually give the HO so many days to correct the problem, then fine runs daily if it is not resolved by the date they specify. We have a HO who does not have a permanent fence around their pool. The fence came down with Wilma. We gave everyone 10 months after the hurricane to get new fences or a contract for one. This HO was fined $50. by Grievance. Then they imposed a $50. per day fine after the HO did not have a contract the one month they gave him to come up with it. The maximum fine per FL 720 is $1000.

If the HO wants to appeal they send a letter to Grievance and another date is set for a hearing. The Grievance hears both the violation and appeals. They have reversed some of the fines on appeal or possibly extended the date of completion. The PM and the BOD have nothing to do with any fine after the initial letter is sent. Grievance has absolute power.

BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418

Posted:

Nancy what do you do about 20 days when the fine can't go up anymore? We fine at $10 a day so that we have 100 days before the owner looses their incentive.

Also we have taken the approach that the first offense gets 15 days notice after that they have had their notice and it is usually just 7 days.

NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BradD2 on 08/20/2007 5:44 AM
Nancy what do you do about 20 days when the fine can't go up anymore? We fine at $10 a day so that we have 100 days before the owner looses their incentive.

Also we have taken the approach that the first offense gets 15 days notice after that they have had their notice and it is usually just 7 days.

Brad,

Sometimes the committee does fine $10.,15, 20 per day. If they get a $50. fine it is serious. This particular HO had not signed a contract for a fence in 20 months. We did give everyone 10 months. She signed a contract the day after the fine was imposed. This usually moves the HO into correcting the problem.

We have had one HO that has two violations that amount to $1000. each. She is also a HO who has a lien placed by the HOA for two quarters of uncollected dues.

We try to be as accomodating as possible but sometimes you can't be, people feel they can take advantage. Then when the next HO does it, they say "you allowed so and so".

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