LarryB22 (Virginia)
Posts: 5
Posts: 5
Posted:
What are the risks of using Drones for Neighborhood Watch?
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Neighborhood Watch and Drones: Risks
Started by LarryB22 ā¢ 23 replies ā¢ 1299 views
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RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Would make for great target practice.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
I would think the biggest risk is that the activity is not consistent enough to provide long term benefits.
Depending on state law, there COULD be privacy issues - depending on where the onboard camera system is collecting data.
Depending on state law, there COULD be privacy issues - depending on where the onboard camera system is collecting data.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well once you lose that drone in someone's backyard, do you really think they are going to give it back? I don't think there is a need for drones. Most HOA's rules dictate that the "offensive" stuff like RV's, big trucks, boats... etc... be "hidden" in back yards. Usually this happens with a privacy fence or the home itself. Well now you put a drone up... How is the HOA going to react now that these item can be "seen"?
BTW: Drones are possibly up for regulation by the FAA. So you may want to be careful flying these things near airport or airplane flight paths. There could be some laws forming as we speak in regards to Drone useage. It's a new technology and thus laws will be evolving.
BTW: Drones are possibly up for regulation by the FAA. So you may want to be careful flying these things near airport or airplane flight paths. There could be some laws forming as we speak in regards to Drone useage. It's a new technology and thus laws will be evolving.
Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
fly it over my house and I will shoot its ass down.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Drone or no drone, there are good arguments why a Neighborhood Watch program should NOT be associated with the HOA in any way. There's just too much exposure to liability. You can have a NW organization, just don't couple it to the HOA. (Disclaimer: my HOA has a Neighborhood Watch committee that reports to the board and all my protests about the arrangement fall on deaf ears.)
The biggest risk is probably the cost of the drone itself ($1,000 ballpark for one of the popular DJI models) because people like Richard and myself exist. You can get them cheaper but arguably the cheaper ones are unlikely to provide you with video quality good enough to identify suspicious persons or vehicles.
Also, if you're within controlled airspace near an airport you'd likely be in violation of FAA unmanned aerial vehicle (a/k/a "drone") regulations unless you've applied for and received the proper authorizations. Also, flying a drone in furtherance of any commercial activity requires that whoever is in control of the drone has the proper Part 107 operator certificate. Unless you can convince the FAA that the Neighborhood Watch program is for recreation or a "hobby", then it is, by definition, a commercial purpose.
The biggest risk is probably the cost of the drone itself ($1,000 ballpark for one of the popular DJI models) because people like Richard and myself exist. You can get them cheaper but arguably the cheaper ones are unlikely to provide you with video quality good enough to identify suspicious persons or vehicles.
Also, if you're within controlled airspace near an airport you'd likely be in violation of FAA unmanned aerial vehicle (a/k/a "drone") regulations unless you've applied for and received the proper authorizations. Also, flying a drone in furtherance of any commercial activity requires that whoever is in control of the drone has the proper Part 107 operator certificate. Unless you can convince the FAA that the Neighborhood Watch program is for recreation or a "hobby", then it is, by definition, a commercial purpose.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Richard,
Iām thinking that is illegal?
Iām thinking that is illegal?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I'll tell the judge the AR-15 went off by accident.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Being pretty cool toys I think I'd use a net.
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posts: 821
Posted:
I cannot imagine any scenario in which this is a good idea.
You're just begging for a lawsuit.
You're just begging for a lawsuit.
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posts: 264
Posted:
Small Unmanned Aircraft Regulations (Part 107)- https://www.faa.gov/news/fact_sheets/news_story.cfm?newsId=22615
There are several issues: Flying over backyards would be counter to a persons "Reasonable expectation of Privacy". Flying over roads with moving traffic is prohibited.
No this isn't to say that people don't get away with this behavior all the time but I guarantee if it is made into a normal thing like a neighborhood watch then someone is going to be is really big trouble with the FAA.
There are several issues: Flying over backyards would be counter to a persons "Reasonable expectation of Privacy". Flying over roads with moving traffic is prohibited.
No this isn't to say that people don't get away with this behavior all the time but I guarantee if it is made into a normal thing like a neighborhood watch then someone is going to be is really big trouble with the FAA.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BarbaraT1 on 08/03/2018 9:27 AM
I cannot imagine any scenario in which this is a good idea.
You're just begging for a lawsuit.
I cannot imagine any scenario in which this is a good idea.
You're just begging for a lawsuit.
Most people who cause problems and annoyances with drones are flying them illegally in the first place. It's unlikely that someone breaking the law will want to bring attention to their illegal activities by filing a lawsuit. If your drone comes over my backyard close enough to see inside the windows of my house then I'm the one who will be filing a lawsuit against the owner of the drone after turning him in to the FAA. In order to find out who owns it, I'll need to knock it out of the air so I can examine its registration number. I'd call it, "preserving evidence", and hey, you know... sometimes those things do just fall out of the sky. It's one of the most frequent complaints about drones in the sub-$5k cost range.
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posts: 264
Posted:
Darn right Geno. I can take out small dove flying 30+ MPH which means a relatively big DJI Phantom 4 at cruising speed is easy peazy. Just sayin.
PainintheA
Posts: 77
Posts: 77
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 08/02/2018 7:18 PM
I'll tell the judge the AR-15 went off by accident.
I'll tell the judge the AR-15 went off by accident.
My M-1 has NEVER discharged by accident.
It, has, however, discharged several times.
JaredC (Texas)
Posts: 264
Posts: 264
Posted:
You people need shotguns too. ;-)
BarbaraT1 (Texas)
Posts: 821
Posts: 821
Posted:
Geno, my comment was in reference to the original post.
PainintheA
Posts: 77
Posts: 77
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JaredC on 08/03/2018 2:46 PM
You people need shotguns too. ;-)
You people need shotguns too. ;-)
Would a Mossberg Defender .610 loaded with #7 suffice ?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Larry,
Here is a link to State laws regarding Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS aka drones):
http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/current-unmanned-aircraft-state-law-landscape.aspx
Here is a link to State laws regarding Unmanned Aircraft Systems (UAS aka drones):
http://www.ncsl.org/research/transportation/current-unmanned-aircraft-state-law-landscape.aspx
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
also check out the recent Virginia law:
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-130.1:
Virginia Ā§ 18.2-130.1. Peeping or spying into dwelling or occupied building by electronic device; penalty.
It is unlawful for any person to knowingly and intentionally cause an electronic device to enter the property of another to secretly or furtively peep or spy or attempt to peep or spy into or through a window, door, or other aperture of any building, structure, or other enclosure occupied or intended for occupancy as a dwelling, whether or not such building, structure, or enclosure is permanently situated or transportable and whether or not such occupancy is permanent or temporary, or to do the same, without just cause, upon property owned by him and leased or rented to another under circumstances that would violate the occupant's reasonable expectation of privacy. A violation of this section is a Class 1 misdemeanor. The provisions of this section shall not apply to a lawful criminal investigation.
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/18.2-130.1:
Virginia Ā§ 18.2-130.1. Peeping or spying into dwelling or occupied building by electronic device; penalty.
It is unlawful for any person to knowingly and intentionally cause an electronic device to enter the property of another to secretly or furtively peep or spy or attempt to peep or spy into or through a window, door, or other aperture of any building, structure, or other enclosure occupied or intended for occupancy as a dwelling, whether or not such building, structure, or enclosure is permanently situated or transportable and whether or not such occupancy is permanent or temporary, or to do the same, without just cause, upon property owned by him and leased or rented to another under circumstances that would violate the occupant's reasonable expectation of privacy. A violation of this section is a Class 1 misdemeanor. The provisions of this section shall not apply to a lawful criminal investigation.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Another Virginia Statute (2018) [emphasis added]:
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter5/section18.2-121.3/
Virginia Ā§ 18.2-121.3. Trespass with an unmanned aircraft system; penalty.
A. Any person who knowingly and intentionally causes an unmanned aircraft system to enter the property of another and come within 50 feet of a dwelling house (i) to coerce, intimidate, or harass another person or (ii) after having been given actual notice to desist, for any other reason, is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
B. This section shall not apply to any person who causes an unmanned aircraft system to enter the property as set forth in subsection A if (i) consent is given to the entry by any person with legal authority to consent or by any person who is lawfully present on such property or (ii) such person is authorized by federal regulations to operate an unmanned aircraft system and is operating such system in an otherwise lawful manner and consistent with federal regulations.
https://law.lis.virginia.gov/vacode/title18.2/chapter5/section18.2-121.3/
Virginia Ā§ 18.2-121.3. Trespass with an unmanned aircraft system; penalty.
A. Any person who knowingly and intentionally causes an unmanned aircraft system to enter the property of another and come within 50 feet of a dwelling house (i) to coerce, intimidate, or harass another person or (ii) after having been given actual notice to desist, for any other reason, is guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
B. This section shall not apply to any person who causes an unmanned aircraft system to enter the property as set forth in subsection A if (i) consent is given to the entry by any person with legal authority to consent or by any person who is lawfully present on such property or (ii) such person is authorized by federal regulations to operate an unmanned aircraft system and is operating such system in an otherwise lawful manner and consistent with federal regulations.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Tim,
Good finds on those links.
As to the general question, I'm really not sure what valid neighborhood watch function would require or be improved by using a drone. It's been a while since I attended an NW meeting, but my recollection is that people should watch for unusual activities in publicly viewable areas, such as noticing a vehicle parked in front of a house where the owners were away. I don't see where a drone would be any better than not using one.
Good finds on those links.
As to the general question, I'm really not sure what valid neighborhood watch function would require or be improved by using a drone. It's been a while since I attended an NW meeting, but my recollection is that people should watch for unusual activities in publicly viewable areas, such as noticing a vehicle parked in front of a house where the owners were away. I don't see where a drone would be any better than not using one.
Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
I believe that you will see drones becoming more widely used for many purposes and I am sure HOA's will get a piece of that action.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Larry,
Personally, I don't see a whole lot of benefit either.
It may have way of having more individuals volunteer (wow, I can play with drones).
It may provide a way to allow the NW to stay safer (farther away from the incident) or to follow the individual (which I don't think they are supposed to do).
Perhaps you should ask the watch and have the watch ask the police if the drones should be used or not.
Personally, as with others, I think using drones will open up the door for legal actions (especially based on the recent laws).
Personally, I don't see a whole lot of benefit either.
It may have way of having more individuals volunteer (wow, I can play with drones).
It may provide a way to allow the NW to stay safer (farther away from the incident) or to follow the individual (which I don't think they are supposed to do).
Perhaps you should ask the watch and have the watch ask the police if the drones should be used or not.
Personally, as with others, I think using drones will open up the door for legal actions (especially based on the recent laws).
KristyS (Ohio)
Posts: 10
Posts: 10
Posted:
We don't have a neighborhood watch but a vet in his 40's who uses his drone to harass people and drop nails/screws on their property. He also was caught hovering by upstairs windows. There have been police reports made and still nothing comes of it. Our Ring cameras have caught his drone flying on our property also.
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