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KathleenR (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Hi! I'm new to this website and a new Board Member. Per our Property Management Company, we are on the verge of bankruptcy. In a short meeting last night, we were basically "strong-armed" into increasing the dues 15% with the "threat" that we (the Board) can be sued for not increasing the dues? The Board Members were not given anytime to discuss/research this information or the amount of the increase. Has anyone ever experienced this? Thanks!
MadaleineD (Florida)
Posts: 12
Posted:
What State are you in? The Board needs to remember you are the EMPLOYER -- the management company is the EMPLOYEE. The management company, if they are controlling your finances, should be presenting you with P&Ls and balance sheets EVERY MONTH. It should never have gotten to this point. If I were on your Board, I would vote to demand an audit by a disinterested third party immediately. More importantly -- you are the EMPLOYER -- they are the EMPLOYEES. Management companies need to be made accountable and should not be making ANY decisions without prior BOARD approval.
MadaleineD (Florida)
Posts: 12
Posted:
P.S. EMPLOYEES CAN be fired!!!!!!!!!!
KathleenR (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
I appreacite your response! I reside in Ontario, CA and we do not receive monthly P&L's, but fiscal. I will definitely heed your advice on hiring a new employee! Thank you!
DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KathleenR on 08/16/2007 7:08 PM
I appreacite your response! I reside in Ontario, CA and we do not receive monthly P&L's, but fiscal. I will definitely heed your advice on hiring a new employee! Thank you!

Ontario? Is that a state now? In my state, Florida, any increase in dues over 10% requires a membership vote. So check your manual.
KathleenR (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Hello! Unfortunately we did vote; however, we were only given 10 minutes to vote due to the fact the budget for the fiscal year needed to be turned in last night! (I am in Ontario, California!)
DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51
Posted:
so I guess you don't have the 14 notice statute as we have in FL?
KathleenR (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
this is HOA 101 for me! please explain the 14 notice statute. PS...i have rerquested on numerous occassions for our current CC&Rs, yet to no avail.
LarryM3 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Kathleen,
First of all GREAT for getting on the board. I am also in Calif. and have been on a BOD for the last five years. Read, read, read all your documents. Next get a copy of the Davis-Sterling Act. It is the mandated Civil Codes that pertain to HOA's in the state of California.
When you bought into your property you should have recieved all the doc's CC&R, Articles of Incorporation, Bylaws and Rules.
Good Luck, Larry
MikeS1
Posts: 668
Posted:
When was the last time that a professional "Reserve Study" was done. Some states (like va) have statutory requirements to do this every 5 years. You'all should have been able to see this train coming down the tracks. It's a choice of either raise the fees, or go with a special assessment or get a loan (if you can).
A reserve study would shed a lot of light on large capital expenditures that are necessary simple due to major maintenance issue and the lifespan of your physical assets.
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KathleenR on 08/16/2007 7:53 PM
this is HOA 101 for me! please explain the 14 notice statute. PS...i have rerquested on numerous occassions for our current CC&Rs, yet to no avail.

KathleenR - DavidT1 is referring to the General Provisions of Florida Statute 720 specifically 720.306 as follows:

(5) NOTICE OF MEETINGS.--The bylaws shall provide for giving notice to members of all member meetings, and if they do not do so shall be deemed to provide the following: The association shall give all parcel owners and members actual notice of all membership meetings, which shall be mailed, delivered, or electronically transmitted to the members not less than 14 days prior to the meeting. Evidence of compliance with this 14-day notice shall be made by an affidavit executed by the person providing the notice and filed upon execution among the official records of the association. In addition to mailing, delivering, or electronically transmitting the notice of any meeting, the association may, by reasonable rule, adopt a procedure for conspicuously posting and repeatedly broadcasting the notice and the agenda on a closed-circuit cable television system serving the association. When broadcast notice is provided, the notice and agenda must be broadcast in a manner and for a sufficient continuous length of time so as to allow an average reader to observe the notice and read and comprehend the entire content of the notice and the agenda.
DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoeW1 on 08/17/2007 5:54 AM
Posted By KathleenR on 08/16/2007 7:53 PM
this is HOA 101 for me! please explain the 14 notice statute. PS...i have rerquested on numerous occassions for our current CC&Rs, yet to no avail.


KathleenR - DavidT1 is referring to the General Provisions of Florida Statute 720 specifically 720.306 as follows:

(5) NOTICE OF MEETINGS.--The bylaws shall provide for giving notice to members of all member meetings, and if they do not do so shall be deemed to provide the following: The association shall give all parcel owners and members actual notice of all membership meetings, which shall be mailed, delivered, or electronically transmitted to the members not less than 14 days prior to the meeting. Evidence of compliance with this 14-day notice shall be made by an affidavit executed by the person providing the notice and filed upon execution among the official records of the association. In addition to mailing, delivering, or electronically transmitting the notice of any meeting, the association may, by reasonable rule, adopt a procedure for conspicuously posting and repeatedly broadcasting the notice and the agenda on a closed-circuit cable television system serving the association. When broadcast notice is provided, the notice and agenda must be broadcast in a manner and for a sufficient continuous length of time so as to allow an average reader to observe the notice and read and comprehend the entire content of the notice and the agenda.

There's actually a bunch of 14 day notice statues. Pretty much any meeting where something material will occur: a budget, an election, an assessment.
BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KathleenR on 08/16/2007 6:44 PM
Hi! I'm new to this website and a new Board Member. Per our Property Management Company, we are on the verge of bankruptcy. In a short meeting last night, we were basically "strong-armed" into increasing the dues 15% with the "threat" that we (the Board) can be sued for not increasing the dues? The Board Members were not given anytime to discuss/research this information or the amount of the increase. Has anyone ever experienced this? Thanks!

Kathleen:

Cutting through all the other stuff going on here, the answer to your questions is pretty simple and is located in your documents and state statutes. Our documents allow an increase of 20% of the dues without a membership vote, so that is the first step I would take is to read your documents. In your example above if it had been our association we simply would have needed a board vote to pass the 15% increase, however your threshold may be different.

What David and others are trying to say is that most states and HOA's require advance notice for a meeting where a membership vote is going to take place on things such as dues increases.
JosephW (Michigan)
Posts: 882
Posted:
To answer the question about the board "being sued", here is a recent case that may hel answer it:

Ebert v. Briar Knoll Condominium Association
In a recent case, New Jersey's appellate court held that a condominium may breach its fiduciary duty to its members by failing to maintain the common elements, failing to increase assessments sufficiently to maintain the property, and fund adequate reserves. In Ebert v. Briar Knoll Condominium Association, Ms. Ebert alleged that the board of trustees failed to hold meetings open to the members and failed to provide proper notice of board meetings. Importantly, she also alleged that the association was not maintaining the property, was not setting aside adequate reserves and was not raising assessments sufficient to fund both of these things.

The appellate court reiterated the longstanding rule that a condominium has a fiduciary duty to its owners, and that said condominium is responsible, by law, to maintain, repair and replace common elements. The appellate then added that a condominium must assess and collect funds for common expenses sufficient to carry out those responsibilities. Then it wrote that a board's decision associated with repairs, reserves and the amount of assessments is protected by the "business judgment" rule only if the board's actions or inactions were authorized by law or its governing documents and, if so, whether the actions or inactions were "fraudulent, self-dealing or unconscionable".

Here, Ms. Ebert presented evidence that the condominium had "allowed the common elements to deteriorate" thereby diminishing the value of the common property. She presented evidence that the condominium "failed to provide adequate reserves for the maintenance of common elements by refusing over the course of years to increase maintenance fees sufficiently to create such reserves". This evidence included the condominium's own reserve report which recommended to the board, at that time, that "maintenance fees be increased threefold in order to create adequate reserves".

Cases like this one, and others, remind condominiums that despite the objections of owners, or concerns about a backlash, a condominium and its board must raise maintenance fees to a level sufficient to maintain the property and set aside "adequate" reserves. Note also New Jersey's Planned Real Estate Development Full Disclosure law, or PREDFDA, which requires via its regulations that each association (not just condominiums) must "prepare and adopt an operating budget which shall provide for .... adequate reserves for repair and replacement of the common elements and facilities". A condominium board that fails to raise its maintenance fees to levels sufficient to maintain the property and set aside adequate reserves could very well be found to have breached its fiduciary duty.

I don't agree with the last minute rush, but yes boards can be sued if the fees aren't adequate.

Joe

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DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51
Posted:
Unfortuntely they can't be sued for being inefficient. Many times boards raise fees because they don't know how to run the place efficiently, so you have a catch-22 almost. Incompetent management = higher fees.
LindaC3 (Florida)
Posts: 526
Posted:
I have enjoyed reading the posts about this subject... We are having our final budget meeting on Saturday for the presentation to the board at Sundays' meeting..... And yes , we all received a copy of the budget 30 some odd days ago.....I sorta feel like our HOA is a small success story as in years past NO ONE I mean NO ONE ever had input into the budget ,except for those on the budget committee....

In this past year a few of us got together and implored people here to come to meetings and ask questions about the budget and where was the $$$ going....We explained that w/o input , the committe will just ASSUME that all is well and we dont care about the how whens and where of how they spend the $$$ or allocate it--UNTIL you get the bill.... People got the COURAGE to start asking questions and as a result of this our budget is the tightest it has been in years.... We will actually enjoy a $`1.00 , yes a whole dollar, a month reduction.....

We are actually getting our first AUDIT in 34 years !!!!!! I think this may be playing a part in thebudget planning process....... Oud BOD in the past NEVER explained the reasoning behind having an audit and NEVER followed State Statutes ( Florida ) with regards to this matter ..SSSOOOO Me being the pot stirrer I am went on an active campaign and talked to as many people as I could and explained the legal ramifications of not having an audit.....posted state statutes to our neighborhood discussion group...lobbied for members who belonged to organizations..like the boy scouts of america and like clubs to attend the annual meeting and explain the benefits of an audit etc............ The vote was OVERWHELMING in support of an audit and IT SHOCKED the BOD... The little people had spoken and since that day we have enjoyed a complete 180 degree turn in attitude from our BOD to its members...

Seems that if folks speak the truth, compose themselves in a professional manner and most of all ,treat people as they would like to be treated we all win....

In closing... I would like to give a BIG THANKS to HOA TALK for providing me with an outlet to ask for and recieve help with living in an HOA...Without this forum I would never have had the guts to join all the commitees I do and play an active part in our association.... I would have adopted that apathetic attitude and left the job to someone else... A BIG THANKS to all of you that have provided me with guidance and answering most of my posts.... and a REALLY BIG THANKS to ROGERB........... You really opened my eyes, mind and heart and gave me the courage to lose the "mad" attitude and become a PROACTIVE member of my HOA..... My hat is off to all of you.....................LindaC
BradD2 (Florida)
Posts: 418
Posted:
Take everything you hear with a grain of salt and think about why someone would tell you something and what they have to gain from saying what they are. If the management company has gone through the budget by either running up a lot of incidentals or through their monthly fees they need more money.

This happened to us. We were running about $40 a month in Office Supplies and after a few months the new management company suddenly spiked them to to $150 a month. When asked for the details they ended up being things we couldn't possibly have incurred, like 160 proxy election forms for our 50 houses.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By LindaC3 on 08/17/2007 8:17 AM
... I would like to give a BIG THANKS to HOA TALK for providing me with an outlet to ask for and recieve help with living in an HOA...Without this forum I would never have had the guts to join all the commitees I do and play an active part in our association.... I would have adopted that apathetic attitude and left the job to someone else... A BIG THANKS to all of you that have provided me with guidance and answering most of my posts.... and a REALLY BIG THANKS to ROGERB........... You really opened my eyes, mind and heart and gave me the courage to lose the "mad" attitude and become a PROACTIVE member of my HOA..... My hat is off to all of you.....................LindaC

Thank you LindaC3,
Your comments inspire all who access this board to get help and provide help. I know your HOA will be a better place with your contributions
DaneC (California)
Posts: 210
Posted:
Sorry, you are not being strong-armed. Seems that your assessments have not keen reviewed. Are you aware of the following, taken from the Davis-Stirling Act -

1365. Unless the governing documents impose more stringent
standards, the association shall prepare and distribute to all of its
members the following documents:
(a) A pro forma operating budget, which shall include all of the
following:
(1) The estimated revenue and expenses on an accrual basis.
(2) A summary of the association's reserves based upon the most
recent review or study conducted pursuant to Section 1365.5, based
only on assets held in cash or cash equivalents, which shall be
printed in boldface type and include all of the following:
(A) The current estimated replacement cost, estimated remaining
life, and estimated useful life of each major component.
(B) As of the end of the fiscal year for which the study is
prepared:
(i) The current estimate of the amount of cash reserves necessary
to repair, replace, restore, or maintain the major components.
(ii) The current amount of accumulated cash reserves actually set
aside to repair, replace, restore, or maintain major components.

1365.5(e) At least once every three years, the board of directors shall
cause to be conducted a reasonably competent and diligent visual
inspection of the accessible areas of the major components that the
association is obligated to repair, replace, restore, or maintain as
part of a study of the reserve account requirements of the common
interest development, if the current replacement value of the major
components is equal to or greater than one-half of the gross budget
of the association, excluding the association's reserve account for
that period. The board shall review this study, or cause it to be
reviewed, annually and shall consider and implement necessary
adjustments to the board's analysis of the reserve account
requirements as a result of that review............

1366.(b) Notwithstanding more restrictive limitations placed on the
board by the governing documents, the board of directors may not
impose a regular assessment that is more than 20 percent greater than
the regular assessment for the association's preceding fiscal year
or impose special assessments which in the aggregate exceed 5 percent
of the budgeted gross expenses of the association for that fiscal
year without the approval of owners, constituting a quorum, casting a
majority of the votes at a meeting or election of the association
conducted in accordance with Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 7510)
of Part 3 of Division 2 of Title 1 of the Corporations Code and
Section 7613 of the Corporations Code. For the purposes of this
section, quorum means more than 50 percent of the owners of an
association. This section does not limit assessment increases
necessary for emergency situations. For purposes of this section, an
emergency situation is any one of the following:
(1) An extraordinary expense required by an order of a court.
(2) An extraordinary expense necessary to repair or maintain the
common interest development or any part of it for which the
association is responsible where a threat to personal safety on the
property is discovered.
NancyD1 (Florida)
Posts: 447
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KathleenR on 08/16/2007 6:44 PM
Hi! I'm new to this website and a new Board Member. Per our Property Management Company, we are on the verge of bankruptcy. In a short meeting last night, we were basically "strong-armed" into increasing the dues 15% with the "threat" that we (the Board) can be sued for not increasing the dues? The Board Members were not given anytime to discuss/research this information or the amount of the increase. Has anyone ever experienced this? Thanks!

Kathleen, where is the Treasurer in all this mess? You don't get to this point in one month. Why didn't the BOD or the MC see this problem coming a few months ago. There may be extenuating circumstances or misuse of funds. I would worry about who is handling the money for this association.

Why were the dues increased and not an assessment proposed? Normally when the HOA is short cash for the year an assessment is imposed to complete the year. When the budget is put together for the next year the proper expenses are formulated.
CharlesW1 (Georgia)
Posts: 826
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidT1 on 08/16/2007 7:19 PM
Posted By KathleenR on 08/16/2007 7:08 PM
I appreacite your response! I reside in Ontario, CA and we do not receive monthly P&L's, but fiscal. I will definitely heed your advice on hiring a new employee! Thank you!


Ontario? Is that a state now? In my state, Florida, any increase in dues over 10% requires a membership vote. So check your manual.

KathleenR

DavidT1 doesn’t make a very good point that also holds true in my community, here in Georgia. Our governing document says we can raise the assessment up to 10% without an association vote. (Membership)

If one is fortunate enough not to have to raise the assessments that certainly would be nice. (cost of living alone)

DavidT1,
I’m not really sure what you meant by asking that question, sarcasm, I would assume!
I goggled Ontario, CA. http://www.ci.ontario.ca.us/
I too was thinking what you wrote, but I also figured I’d be sure of it before opening mouth insert foot.

Chuck W.

Charles E. Wafer Jr.
KathleenR (California)
Posts: 13
Posted:
Thanks everyone! All of your comments have been very helpful and is very much appreciated! P.S. I wasn't trying to be sarcastic! :o)

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