COA Board Member Frustration

RichA3 (Arizona)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Thank God for this forum. It gives me a chance to vent my frustrations as a Board member of a small 17-unit condo association. Being on a Board of Management (BOM) is a thankless job. Chronic complainers & dead-beat absentee owners are a real pain. I am looking forward to stepping down ASAP. But then I think would I want these same folks on the board instead?! BOMs can unilaterally do or not do anything they want. They are in effect answerable to no one. I know in AZ, probably like many other states, there are many state statutes that supposedly govern condo associations. But just who blows the whistle when a COA decides to not enforce their CC&Rs & Bylaws?! Doing nothing in today's environment usually does not get anyone in trouble. If you do anything though that can cause you grief. For example I live in Sun City, AZ. We have around 360 individual COAs here. Supposedly the Sun City Homeowners Association (SCHOA) is responsible for the enforcement of the rules pertaining to COAs. But I have found out that SCHOA can only intervene if an individual COA requests their assistance. SCHOA only gets involved if requested by a COA Board member or an individual in that COA.
For example, right across the street from me is a different COA. A majority of the owners there park their vehicles (cars, service trucks, pickups) full time in the street. Both my COA rules & the SCHOA rules state vehicles can only be parked in the street a maximum of 72 hours in any calendar month. Leading, by example, with her car on the street all the time, is the Chairman of that COA. Our BOM Chairman has 3 vehicles, an RV, and two cars. He keeps one of those cars in his garage & parks his other two vehicles in a vehicle storage lot.
When I reported this apparent CC&R violation to SCHOA they said in effect I had no standing in that COA as I was not a member there. SCHOA also said it is a very difficult CC&R to enforce.
There are a number of laws, rules, CC&Rs, statutes, etc. that are difficult to enforce, so let's do absolutely nothing!

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

RichA3, welcome to the forum. It has helped me over a few years realize that the volunteers who serve on HOA boards are typically not qualified; do not understand the law of their governing documents; are considered by the courts to be "quasi-governmental" but lack the accountability (via the press and an attorney operating in the interests of the HOA and not on orders of the Board per se). One gets what one pays for. Most importantly, if you continue reading here, you will realize how not alone you are.

GeorgeR8 (Arizona)
Posts: 182

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichA3 on 07/14/2018 6:37 AM
Thank God for this forum. It gives me a chance to vent my frustrations as a Board member of a small 17-unit condo association. Being on a Board of Management (BOM) is a thankless job. Chronic complainers & dead-beat absentee owners are a real pain. I am looking forward to stepping down ASAP. But then I think would I want these same folks on the board instead?! BOMs can unilaterally do or not do anything they want. They are in effect answerable to no one. I know in AZ, probably like many other states, there are many state statutes that supposedly govern condo associations. But just who blows the whistle when a COA decides to not enforce their CC&Rs & Bylaws?! Doing nothing in today's environment usually does not get anyone in trouble. If you do anything though that can cause you grief. For example I live in Sun City, AZ. We have around 360 individual COAs here. Supposedly the Sun City Homeowners Association (SCHOA) is responsible for the enforcement of the rules pertaining to COAs. But I have found out that SCHOA can only intervene if an individual COA requests their assistance. SCHOA only gets involved if requested by a COA Board member or an individual in that COA.
For example, right across the street from me is a different COA. A majority of the owners there park their vehicles (cars, service trucks, pickups) full time in the street. Both my COA rules & the SCHOA rules state vehicles can only be parked in the street a maximum of 72 hours in any calendar month. Leading, by example, with her car on the street all the time, is the Chairman of that COA. Our BOM Chairman has 3 vehicles, an RV, and two cars. He keeps one of those cars in his garage & parks his other two vehicles in a vehicle storage lot.
When I reported this apparent CC&R violation to SCHOA they said in effect I had no standing in that COA as I was not a member there. SCHOA also said it is a very difficult CC&R to enforce.
There are a number of laws, rules, CC&Rs, statutes, etc. that are difficult to enforce, so let's do absolutely nothing!

Rich, first of all SCHOA is for the houses and enforcing those CC&Rs. Every condo association, and there are 386 of them in Sun City, has their own documents and they are all different. So that means one set of CC&Rs for the 19,000 houses and 386 different documents for the 9000 condos. The condo documents are much stricter than SCHOA CC&Rs. Since you are not being specific on what CC&Rs are being violated in your association I can't address that problem. SCHOA usually only gets involved with condos when it comes to age violations since they have a deal with the Sheriff's Office.

I am thinking you are the same Rich A that has been writing letters to the editor. Since those letters show that the writer has no understanding of condominiums I question if you are correct on violations in your association.

As to the parking I agree with you that it is a problem. It also can't be enforced by the association. Those are county roads. It doesn't matter what the CC&Rs from 1972 say. There is no on street parking allowed in Sun City but it isn't enforced in Phase 2 and it sounds like that is where you live. I have been told it isn't enforced because there are no signs. You also can't force a person to use their garage and that has been through the courts. On Wednesday evening there will be reps from the Maricopa County Sheriffs Office at 6:00 at Mountain View Rec Center. Why don't you attend and voice your concerns.

RichA3 (Arizona)
Posts: 48

Posted:

Thanks for the information George. No doubt I fail your litmus test for knowledge about the SCHOA.
As you correctly surmised, I do live in Phase II in a little patio home in our flat-roof society. (:-) But I think you verified my main point. Those of us who live in those 386 condo associations are pretty much immune from any SCHOA oversight. You only mentioned enforcing age-restriction requirements in my little corner of the world.

SCHOA touts that you "Provide for the well-being of Sun City through fair and universal
compliance with the CC&Rs." But, in fact, for a very large portion of Sun City you simply don't do that. Your SCHOA complaint form is useless to me as you do not even investigate issues in those 386 condo associations, including mine.

Please let me know George if I am mistaken on this crucial point.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichA3 on 07/14/2018 6:37 AM
Thank God for this forum. It gives me a chance to vent my frustrations as a Board member of a small 17-unit condo association. Being on a Board of Management (BOM) is a thankless job. Chronic complainers & dead-beat absentee owners are a real pain. I am looking forward to stepping down ASAP. But then I think would I want these same folks on the board instead?! BOMs can unilaterally do or not do anything they want. They are in effect answerable to no one. I know in AZ, probably like many other states, there are many state statutes that supposedly govern condo associations. But just who blows the whistle when a COA decides to not enforce their CC&Rs & Bylaws?! Doing nothing in today's environment usually does not get anyone in trouble. If you do anything though that can cause you grief. For example I live in Sun City, AZ. We have around 360 individual COAs here. Supposedly the Sun City Homeowners Association (SCHOA) is responsible for the enforcement of the rules pertaining to COAs. But I have found out that SCHOA can only intervene if an individual COA requests their assistance. SCHOA only gets involved if requested by a COA Board member or an individual in that COA.
For example, right across the street from me is a different COA. A majority of the owners there park their vehicles (cars, service trucks, pickups) full time in the street. Both my COA rules & the SCHOA rules state vehicles can only be parked in the street a maximum of 72 hours in any calendar month. Leading, by example, with her car on the street all the time, is the Chairman of that COA. Our BOM Chairman has 3 vehicles, an RV, and two cars. He keeps one of those cars in his garage & parks his other two vehicles in a vehicle storage lot.
When I reported this apparent CC&R violation to SCHOA they said in effect I had no standing in that COA as I was not a member there. SCHOA also said it is a very difficult CC&R to enforce.
There are a number of laws, rules, CC&Rs, statutes, etc. that are difficult to enforce, so let's do absolutely nothing!

NOPE ... You do not have authority over another neighboring HOA.

Now here is MY PERSONAL issue with regards to your parking complaints ...

Does the HOA OWN and MAINTAIN the Streets? If your answer here is NO then the Streets are Public Property most likely Owned and Maintained by the local Government. Who they themselves are only bound by their own Local Ordinances. Therefore, your best bet is to know your local ordinances and potentially if anyone parks a vehicle such as RV on the street in violation of those ordinances ... then you can have a valid complaint to be filed with the local government.

My last HOA the Developer wanted to come against owners parking on the street (because he had that BS in the CCR’s). However, my local city did note that the street was “Public Property” and that the City had every right to protect the Citizens rights to the use of that said property for issues not violating the local ordinances.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JanetB2 on 07/14/2018 6:20 PM

Posted By RichA3 on 07/14/2018 6:37 AM
Thank God for this forum. It gives me a chance to vent my frustrations as a Board member of a small 17-unit condo association. Being on a Board of Management (BOM) is a thankless job. Chronic complainers & dead-beat absentee owners are a real pain. I am looking forward to stepping down ASAP. But then I think would I want these same folks on the board instead?! BOMs can unilaterally do or not do anything they want. They are in effect answerable to no one. I know in AZ, probably like many other states, there are many state statutes that supposedly govern condo associations. But just who blows the whistle when a COA decides to not enforce their CC&Rs & Bylaws?! Doing nothing in today's environment usually does not get anyone in trouble. If you do anything though that can cause you grief. For example I live in Sun City, AZ. We have around 360 individual COAs here. Supposedly the Sun City Homeowners Association (SCHOA) is responsible for the enforcement of the rules pertaining to COAs. But I have found out that SCHOA can only intervene if an individual COA requests their assistance. SCHOA only gets involved if requested by a COA Board member or an individual in that COA.
For example, right across the street from me is a different COA. A majority of the owners there park their vehicles (cars, service trucks, pickups) full time in the street. Both my COA rules & the SCHOA rules state vehicles can only be parked in the street a maximum of 72 hours in any calendar month. Leading, by example, with her car on the street all the time, is the Chairman of that COA. Our BOM Chairman has 3 vehicles, an RV, and two cars. He keeps one of those cars in his garage & parks his other two vehicles in a vehicle storage lot.
When I reported this apparent CC&R violation to SCHOA they said in effect I had no standing in that COA as I was not a member there. SCHOA also said it is a very difficult CC&R to enforce.
There are a number of laws, rules, CC&Rs, statutes, etc. that are difficult to enforce, so let's do absolutely nothing!

NOPE ... You do not have authority over another neighboring HOA.

Now here is MY PERSONAL issue with regards to your parking complaints ...

Does the HOA OWN and MAINTAIN the Streets? If your answer here is NO then the Streets are Public Property most likely Owned and Maintained by the local Government. Who they themselves are only bound by their own Local Ordinances. Therefore, your best bet is to know your local ordinances and potentially if anyone parks a vehicle such as RV on the street in violation of those ordinances ... then you can have a valid complaint to be filed with the local government.

My last HOA the Developer wanted to come against owners parking on the street (because he had that BS in the CCR’s). However, my local city did note that the street was “Public Property” and that the City had every right to protect the Citizens rights to the use of that said property for issues not violating the local ordinances.

This appears to a master association which may have some jurisdiction over sub associations in regards to streets and parking on those streets.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/16/2018 9:45 PM

Posted By JanetB2 on 07/14/2018 6:20 PM

Posted By RichA3 on 07/14/2018 6:37 AM
Thank God for this forum. It gives me a chance to vent my frustrations as a Board member of a small 17-unit condo association. Being on a Board of Management (BOM) is a thankless job. Chronic complainers & dead-beat absentee owners are a real pain. I am looking forward to stepping down ASAP. But then I think would I want these same folks on the board instead?! BOMs can unilaterally do or not do anything they want. They are in effect answerable to no one. I know in AZ, probably like many other states, there are many state statutes that supposedly govern condo associations. But just who blows the whistle when a COA decides to not enforce their CC&Rs & Bylaws?! Doing nothing in today's environment usually does not get anyone in trouble. If you do anything though that can cause you grief. For example I live in Sun City, AZ. We have around 360 individual COAs here. Supposedly the Sun City Homeowners Association (SCHOA) is responsible for the enforcement of the rules pertaining to COAs. But I have found out that SCHOA can only intervene if an individual COA requests their assistance. SCHOA only gets involved if requested by a COA Board member or an individual in that COA.
For example, right across the street from me is a different COA. A majority of the owners there park their vehicles (cars, service trucks, pickups) full time in the street. Both my COA rules & the SCHOA rules state vehicles can only be parked in the street a maximum of 72 hours in any calendar month. Leading, by example, with her car on the street all the time, is the Chairman of that COA. Our BOM Chairman has 3 vehicles, an RV, and two cars. He keeps one of those cars in his garage & parks his other two vehicles in a vehicle storage lot.
When I reported this apparent CC&R violation to SCHOA they said in effect I had no standing in that COA as I was not a member there. SCHOA also said it is a very difficult CC&R to enforce.
There are a number of laws, rules, CC&Rs, statutes, etc. that are difficult to enforce, so let's do absolutely nothing!

NOPE ... You do not have authority over another neighboring HOA.

Now here is MY PERSONAL issue with regards to your parking complaints ...

Does the HOA OWN and MAINTAIN the Streets? If your answer here is NO then the Streets are Public Property most likely Owned and Maintained by the local Government. Who they themselves are only bound by their own Local Ordinances. Therefore, your best bet is to know your local ordinances and potentially if anyone parks a vehicle such as RV on the street in violation of those ordinances ... then you can have a valid complaint to be filed with the local government.

My last HOA the Developer wanted to come against owners parking on the street (because he had that BS in the CCR’s). However, my local city did note that the street was “Public Property” and that the City had every right to protect the Citizens rights to the use of that said property for issues not violating the local ordinances.

This appears to a master association which may have some jurisdiction over sub associations in regards to streets and parking on those streets.

The Master would also potentially need to Own and Maintain the street property vs the Local Government owning.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

This is from the master community CCRs.

No vehicles, including without limitation cars, trucks, commercial vehicles, motor homes, mobile
homes, trailers (including but not limited to travel trailers, tent trailers and boat trailers), camper shells,
detached campers, recreational vehicles, boats, motorcycles, motorbikes, all-terrain vehicles, golf carts,
and off-road vehicles, shall be parked or maintained on any portion of a lot (except in a garage), or on
public streets, in excess of 72 hours.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, cars, light trucks (having a one-ton rating or less), passenger vans and
golf cars may be parked in garages, carports or driveways at any time without violating this provision.

The Association shall have the right to have any vehicle parked, kept, maintained, constructed,
reconstructed or repaired in violation of this provision towed away at the sole cost and expense of the
Owner of the vehicle or equipment.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/17/2018 7:11 AM
This is from the master community CCRs.

No vehicles, including without limitation cars, trucks, commercial vehicles, motor homes, mobile
homes, trailers (including but not limited to travel trailers, tent trailers and boat trailers), camper shells,
detached campers, recreational vehicles, boats, motorcycles, motorbikes, all-terrain vehicles, golf carts,
and off-road vehicles, shall be parked or maintained on any portion of a lot (except in a garage), or on
public streets, in excess of 72 hours.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, cars, light trucks (having a one-ton rating or less), passenger vans and
golf cars may be parked in garages, carports or driveways at any time without violating this provision.

The Association shall have the right to have any vehicle parked, kept, maintained, constructed,
reconstructed or repaired in violation of this provision towed away at the sole cost and expense of the
Owner of the vehicle or equipment.

LOL ... the only way in AZ that will be binding will depend on when the Declaration was recorded. You see many states are passing laws whereby the HOA who does not “Own and Maintain” the roads cannot regulate. Too many HOA’s were acting like GODS and forclosing on homes because they were fining and regulating “Public Streets” which is property they do not own and cannot potentially “legally” regulate. For Public Streets the Citizens are only supposed to follow the Local, County, or State Laws (which many will regulate parking). Currently AZ has the following statute and which I contend will expand the same as NV and other states with potentially B in the below statute deleted in the future.

https://www.azleg.gov/FormatDocument.asp?inDoc=/ars/33/01818.htm&Title=33&DocType=ARS

33-1818. Community authority over public roadways; applicability
A. Notwithstanding any provision in the community documents, after the period of declarant control, an association has no authority over and shall not regulate any roadway for which the ownership has been dedicated to or is otherwise held by a governmental entity.
B. This section applies only to those planned communities for which the declaration is recorded after December 31, 2014.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Yeah, I saw that. Sun City HOA was formed in 1963.

HomE (Washington)
Posts: 29

Posted:

Quote:

For example, right across the street from me is a different COA. A majority of the owners there park their vehicles (cars, service trucks, pickups) full time in the street. Both my COA rules & the SCHOA rules state vehicles can only be parked in the street a maximum of 72 hours in any calendar month. Leading, by example, with her car on the street all the time, is the Chairman of that COA. Our BOM Chairman has 3 vehicles, an RV, and two cars. He keeps one of those cars in his garage & parks his other two vehicles in a vehicle storage lot.
When I reported this apparent CC&R violation to SCHOA they said in effect I had no standing in that COA as I was not a member there. SCHOA also said it is a very difficult CC&R to enforce.
There are a number of laws, rules, CC&Rs, statutes, etc. that are difficult to enforce, so let's do absolutely nothing!

Why should anyone care about this issue? The last time I checked, an HOA wasn't responsible for activity in public streets. Doing your diligence before moving in is really the best option. If the HOA isn't working for you, there's the moving option.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HomE on 07/17/2018 11:10 PM

For example, right across the street from me is a different COA. A majority of the owners there park their vehicles (cars, service trucks, pickups) full time in the street. Both my COA rules & the SCHOA rules state vehicles can only be parked in the street a maximum of 72 hours in any calendar month. Leading, by example, with her car on the street all the time, is the Chairman of that COA. Our BOM Chairman has 3 vehicles, an RV, and two cars. He keeps one of those cars in his garage & parks his other two vehicles in a vehicle storage lot.
When I reported this apparent CC&R violation to SCHOA they said in effect I had no standing in that COA as I was not a member there. SCHOA also said it is a very difficult CC&R to enforce.
There are a number of laws, rules, CC&Rs, statutes, etc. that are difficult to enforce, so let's do absolutely nothing!

Why should anyone care about this issue? The last time I checked, an HOA wasn't responsible for activity in public streets. Doing your diligence before moving in is really the best option. If the HOA isn't working for you, there's the moving option.

This one does, and they are quite LARGE.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/17/2018 10:29 PM
Yeah, I saw that. Sun City HOA was formed in 1963.

Sun City, AZ is a “census designated place” but the question is when was the OP’s HOA documents filed???

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JanetB2 on 07/18/2018 12:06 AM

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/17/2018 10:29 PM
Yeah, I saw that. Sun City HOA was formed in 1963.

Sun City, AZ is a “census designated place” but the question is when was the OP’s HOA documents filed???

Best guess is way before 2014, you think?

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/18/2018 11:30 PM

Posted By JanetB2 on 07/18/2018 12:06 AM

Posted By RichardP13 on 07/17/2018 10:29 PM
Yeah, I saw that. Sun City HOA was formed in 1963.

Sun City, AZ is a “census designated place” but the question is when was the OP’s HOA documents filed???

Best guess is way before 2014, you think?

Maybe ... Will be for the Original Poster to let us know. Builders are constantly building and if it is a small 17 unit complex it could potentially have been built in last few years.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

I saw the master association's documents as it relates to this matter.