A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
← Return to Topics List

WIFM "What's In It For Me"

Started by RichA3 • 18 replies • 819 views

💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

RichA3 (Arizona)
Posts: 48
Posted:
I am on the board of management of a small 17-unit condo association in Sun City, AZ. A new resident, after our first monsoon rain here, indeed a rare occurrence, asked if our association would improve the drainage from her flat roof. (We are all members of the flat-roof society here). Most drainage arrangements on our roofs have downspouts...just a few do not...and one of them is at this new owners place. She said the water from this un-ducted drain on her roof, although falling directly down in the alley from it, backs up in her back patio area through a small drain port on the bottom of her back patio wall. She wonders if the association should pay for a better drainage arrangement. I would guess this drain arrangement has been this way close to 50 years. Also she bought the place as is. I believe it would be her responsibility to pay for any improved drainage arrangement after getting Board approval for this architectural change. Am I wrong? Probably. (:-)
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Am I wrong? Probably. (:-)

You answered your own question.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
You may be right about this being her responsibility, but if it's been 50 years since the place was built, there's also a chance that some improvements are needed (all the rains over the last 50 years could have had an impact you're not aware of.) It may be helpful to double check the documents to see who's responsible for these drains and downspouts - if it's hers, she'll have to decide for herself what to do next and pay for it.

You don't say how long ago this occurred, but might it be possible to have a roofer or someone check the area to see there is a problem? You may have to wait until the next rain to know for certain, but in the meantime, have the lady tell you as much as possible about this water back up. It may or may not be as much as she thinks or disappeared as quickly as it came (and a repair might not even be necessary).

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
RichA3 (Arizona)
Posts: 48
Posted:
Thank you for an intelligent, helpful response Sheila.
The timing was poor in the case of my new unit owner, Sheila. I had just worked on contacting a neighbor whose flat roof had lifted up & rolled off their home...I was trying to bring the association's umbrella insurance policy into play as well as contacting the unit owner & asking that they get their individual condo owner's insurance policy activated. With the wind blowing and another monsoon rain approaching this new unit owner asks what we, our association, can do for her. Piss poor timing. What a self-centered bitch in my humble opinion!
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichA3 on 07/13/2018 5:51 PM
Thank you for an intelligent, helpful response Sheila.
The timing was poor in the case of my new unit owner, Sheila. I had just worked on contacting a neighbor whose flat roof had lifted up & rolled off their home...I was trying to bring the association's umbrella insurance policy into play as well as contacting the unit owner & asking that they get their individual condo owner's insurance policy activated. With the wind blowing and another monsoon rain approaching this new unit owner asks what we, our association, can do for her. Piss poor timing. What a self-centered bitch in my humble opinion!

Pretty aggressive response to a homeowner who sees the downspouts on other units and wonders probably why hers doesn't have one.

And for the other owner what is their insurance supposed to be responsible for? Is the master policy not primary?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichA3 on 07/13/2018 5:51 PM
What a self-centered bitch in my humble opinion!

I am sure you make a lot of friends with those types of comments.
RichA3 (Arizona)
Posts: 48
Posted:
Jennifer, I do not know yet the answer to your question. The very evening a strong wind destroyed the roof on a neighbor's home, as secretary of our self-managed condo association, I filed a claim with Farmers Insurance as they cover all our condos for property damage from wind. They were most helpful except with assisting me in trying to prevent further water intrusion into the unit. (The unit owners were absent at the time & I could find no contact info for them). Farmers did have a Serv Pro rep call me to discuss further measures to protect the home as more storms were expected in the area. Serv Pro told me they were very busy & that it would not be advisable to put a tarp or plastic cover on the roof as water would just pool up there & the weight could cause further problems. Ironically when I did track down the owner the next morning & he contacted their individual condo insurance policy...that same day that insurance company had folks out to remove the damaged roof...most of which had fallen into their back patio...and they placed & secured a blue plastic covering over the entire roof. None to soon either as a heavy rain came that very evening. Their insurance company put these owners up in a hotel while they said they would take care of the entire restoration. I have got to get the name of that insurance company.
RichA3 (Arizona)
Posts: 48
Posted:
Richard, I do believe the person is a bitch that pressed me for an answer on her drainage system in the middle of a storm. But I was very nice to her...I said I would look into the matter & I have tried to do so here. The person is a chronic complainer...she has been here for a few months & wants the condo association to do pay for stuff she doesn't like about her new home. Like most of us old retirees we have nothing else to do but bitch! (:-)
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichA3 on 07/14/2018 4:16 AM
Jennifer, I do not know yet the answer to your question. The very evening a strong wind destroyed the roof on a neighbor's home, as secretary of our self-managed condo association, I filed a claim with Farmers Insurance as they cover all our condos for property damage from wind. They were most helpful except with assisting me in trying to prevent further water intrusion into the unit. (The unit owners were absent at the time & I could find no contact info for them). Farmers did have a Serv Pro rep call me to discuss further measures to protect the home as more storms were expected in the area. Serv Pro told me they were very busy & that it would not be advisable to put a tarp or plastic cover on the roof as water would just pool up there & the weight could cause further problems. Ironically when I did track down the owner the next morning & he contacted their individual condo insurance policy...that same day that insurance company had folks out to remove the damaged roof...most of which had fallen into their back patio...and they placed & secured a blue plastic covering over the entire roof. None to soon either as a heavy rain came that very evening. Their insurance company put these owners up in a hotel while they said they would take care of the entire restoration. I have got to get the name of that insurance company.

OK I was just wondering because that is not exactly the same from one condo complex to another, one master policy to another, and water damage seems to get complicated. Great that the owner's insurance was on the ball.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Hand her the documents if she doesn't have a copy. Tell her to read and quote something from them when submitting a request. If you can't, then there's your answer. Why? Because we use those SAME documents to respond to you... The HOA isn't a safety bubble nor your private bank account. Some people think the HOA is for handling certain home issues. It's not. Need to establish this and get rid of that mindset.
Former HOA President
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Rich,

You lose automatically by referring to anyone the way you did ... if I was on a board with you and you posted on a website that one of your residents was a “bitch,” and it was known and proveablethat you did this, I would try and remove you from the board.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/14/2018 6:25 AM
Hand her the documents if she doesn't have a copy. Tell her to read and quote something from them when submitting a request. If you can't, then there's your answer. Why? Because we use those SAME documents to respond to you... The HOA isn't a safety bubble nor your private bank account. Some people think the HOA is for handling certain home issues. It's not. Need to establish this and get rid of that mindset.

I doubt that in a condo, she is responsible for anything outside.
RichA3 (Arizona)
Posts: 48
Posted:
You are right of course George. But removing me from the Board would be a blessing not a consequence...I should have used the term "hellion".
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
It seems to me many board members are resigned that 'people will always complain. Just respond with the ferocity of a dictator, and they will stop.' I disagree with this approach. I think it will only cause more headaches.

I think one of the main functions of a board is to educate, and the best route for this is as MelissaP1 describes: Ask the member to justify her or his request by showing you where in either the governing documents, state law, or federal law it says that the HOA is required to do xyz. It's very much akin to a teacher asking a student who constantly asks questions, "Did you look this up?"

The title of this thread disappoints. From all I can tell, this woman is among the vast majority who have no clue as to what it means to live in a common interest community such as a condominium or HOA. She needs an education, not contempt.
RichA3 (Arizona)
Posts: 48
Posted:
Excellent advice Augustin. I will attempt to do just what you & Melissa suggest. I guess I am just an old thin-skinned curmudgeon that needs anger management training. My Mom always said you get better results with a spoonful of sugar...the medicine (or the education) goes down much easier. Thanks.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 07/14/2018 6:25 AM
Hand her the documents if she doesn't have a copy. Tell her to read and quote something from them when submitting a request. If you can't, then there's your answer. Why? Because we use those SAME documents to respond to you... The HOA isn't a safety bubble nor your private bank account. Some people think the HOA is for handling certain home issues. It's not. Need to establish this and get rid of that mindset.


LOL ... That is pretty much my attitude. Show me where the Governing Documents State the HOA is liable. Most likely in this case the HOA is liable, but this is just one case of many which come up on this site. If other homes have proper drainage down spouts then potentially this one and the other couple noted should also. If the majority of other owners have them then in a lawsuit a Judge will most likely rule in favor of the owner ... so not worth the HOA fighting.
RichA3 (Arizona)
Posts: 48
Posted:
My Fault Entirely
I want to emphasize that I have always been cordial to this new unit owner in my little condo owners association. I only vented my frustration to this site and that was probably wrong too.
To Melissa’s point, I talked this morning to this new owner & to my surprise she never did receive any info on our association when she moved in. A welcome package had been routinely sent out by my our management services company & that packet included, among other things, our Bylaws & CC&Rs and a disclosure sheet that required any new owner to verify a number of things, but most importantly that they had read the rules. Trouble is this owner moved in late last May, just a week or so after we had terminated our management services agreement & became a self-managed COA.
I am the only SOB in all this.
I should have been very careful finger-pointing for as you know most of the fingers pointed back at me.
I apologize.
PS I also think any new owner should be personally visited by a member of the Board who will present & discuss this information w them. I intend to do just that...it is never too late to do the right thing.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichA3 on 07/15/2018 7:21 AM
I also think any new owner should be personally visited by a member of the Board who will present & discuss this information w them.


I agree this would be a great investment of time. Isn't there an addage in education that people generally need to hear or read a concept three or so times before it starts to sink in? I think a meeting introducing the CC&Rs and Bylaws, maybe hitting the ones that are most often referred to by the board or are most often violated, could go a long way to reducing frustration and grief on all sides.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichA3 on 07/15/2018 7:21 AM
My Fault Entirely
I want to emphasize that I have always been cordial to this new unit owner in my little condo owners association. I only vented my frustration to this site and that was probably wrong too.
To Melissa’s point, I talked this morning to this new owner & to my surprise she never did receive any info on our association when she moved in. A welcome package had been routinely sent out by my our management services company & that packet included, among other things, our Bylaws & CC&Rs and a disclosure sheet that required any new owner to verify a number of things, but most importantly that they had read the rules. Trouble is this owner moved in late last May, just a week or so after we had terminated our management services agreement & became a self-managed COA.
I am the only SOB in all this.
I should have been very careful finger-pointing for as you know most of the fingers pointed back at me.
I apologize.
PS I also think any new owner should be personally visited by a member of the Board who will present & discuss this information w them. I intend to do just that...it is never too late to do the right thing.

Oh hey, don't be so hard on yourself. You're human and the storm was stressful.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here

Terms of Use and Privacy Statement