Just around the bend

We solved our associations threat of violence by building a bullet proof glass wall in the lobby of our front office for everyone to see when they first enter the building. As if that would stop someone from shooting an individual, the bad guy only has to stand outside the building and take a shot when someone comes out. This thinking process is typical of our unprofessional volunteer board members and typifies their approach to solving problems.

RobertR1: I agree with your last statement...someone else who sees the sincere and urgent need for serious intervention on behalf of HOA community living.

I am also concerned over the 'tone' of posts on this forum lately. In reading some of the questions from posters, and especially, the responses, an 'attitude' is being reflected over and over from community residents. It speaks of a superiority possibly coming from a self-assumed elevated position. This, coupled with those who believe they are 'to be served' by virtue of their buy-in, clearly paves the way for community living in turmoil.

When reading, I am reminded of the reasons why many, many community associations are in trouble...and it's obvious from the written texts. Basically, people don't choose to investigate their official documents, they don't go to the source to learn details of the situation/problem and where they can be a help rather than a hindrance; rather, they prefer to spend their time finding an ally to stand with them against another so they can 'fight it out', and possibly end up in court.

Many times on this forum I feel not all the information is being given truthfully about a situation, and of course, it is being presented with a one-sided perspective. Same as in real community living, depending on who you are speaking with. Where do we go from here?

Are there bad boards? Yes! Are there bad management companies? Yes! Are there first time buyers that are uninformed in HOA procedures? Yes!

After 25 years of serving in this business I have seen all of the above. However, I have also seen and worked with wonderful boards that have the best interest of the community at heart. Most of our communities at present have great, hard working dedicated board members performing a volunteer job of getting the community together.

Few Owners commit to the task, when asked to serve either on the board or for a committee it is usually met with I don’t have the time. Many complainers but few solutions; instead of bringing all of the problems, come to the table with solutions on how a problem might be solved.

Like Kennedy said, (reworded to fit, of course) Ask not what your community can do for you; but what can you do for your community! IMO of course!

Perhaps I should know from your previous postings, but Robert.. What state are you located in??

Here! Here! Gloria

You are 100% correct. Everyone who has responded, has stated valid responses to RobertR's post.

IMO, everyone who lives in a HOA or Condo, should serve on the BOD for at least one year. Then they will have an understanding of what we go through. The good and bad.

Jadeone,
Not really, and that is part of the problem. There is no direction from the state and county or board or lawyer. In my case, I am awaiting a reply from the Attorney General. I hope he gives solid direction. Anyone want to bet he will? It is not that the answers are out there, it is nobody in the legislature is willing to expand and clean up the Laws thaat have been made that lack direction to solve a problem in HOA's that have been created by the lack of good legislation.

Joe,
I think this may be your longest post and for my money, one of the best.
Not because we see some common problems but because at times I have a good ear for the spoken word. Your post has that "ring" about it. A writer writing about something he is comfortable and honest about. You know your subject and your words reflect your sincerety.
Thank you and everyone else for the posts. I think we all gained.

David,

Sounds just like our Federal government. And like our form of government (republic, not democratic), once elected, the board is pretty powerful, which is why the election of board members is so very important but often relegated to the bottom of the "Things I care about" list, which means those that have an agenda, or just on a power-trip, are so often elected.

Joe

Look, folks. We had several really baaaaaad Boards right in a row -- mostly the same people over and over again. They made stuff up as they went along and most of it was illegal. Then they decided to assess a 32% increase in our assessments without presenting a budget. That made me mad and I organized other like-minded neighbors and we got rid of the old Board and we now have an accountant, a true business manager, a construction expert, and me with 38 years of legal experience on the board. We actually have calm, professional meetings, where all the homeowners are welcome to participate after the business portion of the meeting, there is no screaming at one another, no threats of violence, etc. We have real budgets and real working committees. Don't get me wrong, we have some problems and some problem people, and we can't solve every problem, but we have certainly come a long way and the homeowners are now allowed to use the clubhouse as was their right to do, and we do not "police" the neighborhood, but do request that everyone work within our 35-year-old documents until we can present changes and come up with new docs and new regs. It isn't all flowers and candy, and some people still go away angry -- but at least we are civilized and we are gaining more and more participation from the 393 homes.

Some people you can reason with, some people you can't. Just keep it in perspective. Bringing a plastic bottle of water to the pool is not cause to start World War III.

Not really. We ended up with 7 people, and they didn't have one idea between them in an entire year.

One thing that's clear with a Board of Directors: IQ isn't cumulative.

Chloe,

Probably not, unless the Oregon legislature specifically granted the Commissioner that power. Here in Michigan, when the Condo Act was passed in 1978, it included a "Condo Czar" that would approve all original filings for development, require developers to abide by the law, and even get involved in some condo disputes. 3 years later, the legislature simply refused to continue funding the department (the builders association, then as now, is much more powerful in the state legislatures than just about any other group and their lobbyist was able to remove most of the enforcement of the Act simply by proposing the legislature "cut some costs").

State Attorney General's usually only get involved if their is evidence of a crime, or if something really outrageous hits the newspapers, and what may seem major to you, may not even make it onto their radar, unless ignoring it would prove politically harmful.

David, the government analogy is actually pretty close. Once elected there is no legal obligation to carry out one's campaign promises. And I guess it depends on who you voted for as to whether or not you think the current government has an IQ that makes it into double digits or not.

In my now 33 years in the association business, I've seen great boards, good boards, mediocre boards, bad boards and horrible (possibly criminal) boards, all in the same association; I've seen boards that have abdicated their authority to a dictatorial president and seen it turn out from wonderful to horrible, all based on the individual; I've seen the same range of management, legal counsel, accountants and vendors.

Its simply people-based and you get who you elect or who you hire. (Or should that be "whom" you elect). And you can't always tell up front. For the management companies out there - how many of you have looked at an employee you're about to fire and wondered what in the h--- convinced you to hire that person in the first place. That's true in any business and in associations. The best you can do is establish good procedures, do your due diligence when hiring or contracting, pay attention to what's going on, and communicate, communicate communicate. If you do those things, you'll probably be OK.

Joe

Joe

Chloel,
I hope you are wrong Chloel but it has a ring of something some self serving group of Realtors would support and be able to interject into the creation of HOA legislature. Keep in mind that when this kind of organization was born it was not conceived by Happy HOA people. None was born yet, the Real Estate folks, the Bankers, the politios, the local government looking for taxes and all being Pushed by the Developers, did the deed, good and bad.

Tracy,
I certainly agree and appreciate all the time and effort that has gone into making our association as good as it is. I, like a lot of posters, just want the process of HOA management to make sense. Right now, it can't make sense.
I read a comment from a very outspoken man that runs a sort of antiestablishment web site specifically concerned about HOA's etc. I will parapharse his remamrks. He called attention to the real fact that when you join one of these association you are actually offering up your property as collateral to see the business will be run proper. It's true, think about it. The association has a Board elected by the membership that endows these board members a great range of authority to manage and control the funding. The case can be made and I imagine court documents would show that the Board that has no control and the bent to do real damage by misusing or stealing funds will probably at some time caused economic hardship to some owners severe enough that the ownership of these properties could be in jepordy. Worse case scenerio no doubt, but it is happening all the time. Who among us would swear that this is not going on in their association or has never gone on in the life of the association. I just could not, I don't know enough so I try to deal with it. But, I should know enough, the Boards are obligated to prove this to each owner, that is their mandate. Members that don't care is a different story, they had nothing to do with charging the board with responsibility, that was done by the legislation. We all can imagine there are good boards and bad boards, but they are all charged by the law. The laws are inadequate and so outdated and so ignored and so confusing they are next to impossible to decipher. That is a problem, now today, and in our past, and we are coping with the results of bad laws and confusing legislation.

A very smart English writer said years ago, "For in tommorw, walks today."

Tracy, what is "Queensryche". ?

... reformer work within the system to effect change... rebels work outside the system to effect changes... both are useful tools in making community living better.

From my perspective, I believe that there is (as others have stated here) a lack of education by all owners who agree to live in community managed associations. Good and bad boards often lack basic support from their fellow owners, unless something is viewed as having been done "incorrectly," - god forbid you mention raising dues, etc. Not to sound harsh, but you often get what you pay for, and that equally applies to board-members. The more a community "invests" in its leadership, the better the community's management will be. That can be hiring a M/C, or investing in materials (educational, seminars, CD-Roms, etc) for the board to have at their disposal.

We have had lively discussions here concerning "recreational funds" or "social funds" but I also believe that a small percentage of an HOA's annual dues should be spent on educating board-members and the membership, towards better management alternatives. I think also that boards need to have out-reach programs (Saturday morning clean-up "brigades," community social events, support local fire/police departments, etc) so that the "community" in HOA's is not lost. As a society we all have become so "disconnected" from each other that we often do not know effective ways to communicate, and interact - toss in the mortgage, car note, daycare, and all of the other issues we face individually - it is almost maddening. I am a firm believer that if you have enough information out in the community about what a board and community is doing, which runs the gambit of everything (good and bad), then you have a better community. They may not always "like or agree" with the board's decisions, but they will at least understand (and possibly respect) them.

I agree with Robert that things are bad in some communities - and HOA apathy becomes the proverbial "chicken or the egg" which came first.. question. Were folks out of the blocks apathetic, or where they just discouraged by a bad, errant board, and became apathetic...? I believe that it was Joe who mentioned the symptomatic results of the overall society and how they are represented in HOA's - to that I would also add, that they are more "amplified" when in an HOA, because our homes are more intimate settings for us (evoke more attachments, emotions, etc).

I still believe that forums such as HOAtalk provide useful information (if not just an "outlet) for those willing to actively (and positively) participate in our discussions. When we hear about Robert's situation (from SC I believe) we can better appreciate "how good we may have it," in that we have local/state laws in our ares which address some of the challenges. And also, I would assume and hope that Robert benefits from hearing about our local/state laws - with regards to how other jurisdictions interact with community managed properties. We all did not start off as "just add water" communities, complete with ready laws/statutes, or even by-laws, rules/regulations; it had to be created by a determined group of folks, who cared for how they lived, and how their community was managed.

Jadedone,
There is no doubt this site provides a real service and of course the reason is you are allowed a wide amount of freedom and the folks pulling the strings run a fair and just ship. I would venture to say that SC is probably a pretty good example of any state that is fast being developed into clusters of high density Resort areas.

Old school? They just don't make music like that anymore - awesome stuff.

Sadly, I now hear my favorite "rock" on the classic rock stations. I guess I'm stuck in my era of music. But it doesn't stop us from playing air guitars, banging heads up and down with arms hammering in the air!! They don't make music like that anymore either. And the head banging, well gotta be careful of a pulled muscle . . .

Good thing the dance floor isn't the only place to cuddle.

Take care.

Joe,

40,000 cars. If you see any decked out Dodge Magnums, take a picture. I would like to do something to my 2005. Just kidding but I did buy the car because I thought it looked a little 1950's.

Have a wonderful time, used to go to Austin Healey rallys and meets, even met Donald Healey, Bring Back The Big Healey.

Chloe:

The Real Estate Commission would only come into play if your MC were a Broker, then they would be obligated to follow the Real Esttae Comission's standard of keeping records and books. It would depend upon if your state mandates MC's to be licensed or not.