Board member publically harrassed in writing by a home owner

BarbB (California)
Posts: 1

Posted:

1. What action should be taken with a homeowner who posts a harrassing letter on a board member's front door for all to read?

2. Who should take the action? The Board member or the HOA management company?

3. Does the board member being harrassed have the legal right to request that the management company send a letter to the homeowner to advise that posting of, or the act of sending harrassment letters is not permitted against a board member?

Thank You,

DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51

Posted:

I would say it depends on what level of harrasment. If the HOA has a current policy against sticking somethingon someone's door, thats an option.

Realistically, how many people view your door? "all to see"? How many people?

Did they call you a dirty rat or something worse? threaten your life? Thats a legal issue. Thats why you need to have an attorney on retainer.

I recently read an article about how boards are foolish to not want to spend association funds on an attorney. Having an attorney is part of the operating expense of an HOA. You don't want to make a mistake. No-one can do anything about a board wanting to have an attorney on retainer in their budget.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BarbB on 08/16/2007 1:25 AM
1. What action should be taken with a homeowner who posts a harrassing letter on a board member's front door for all to read?

2. Who should take the action? The Board member or the HOA management company?

3. Does the board member being harrassed have the legal right to request that the management company send a letter to the homeowner to advise that posting of, or the act of sending harrassment letters is not permitted against a board member?

Thank You,

Barb:

First question, do they know what person did it? I had a similar experience where a member of our community mailed me two letters that we felt went beyond the line to cross. I contacted our police, they spoke to the person we felt was responsible and after that we have had no problem.

If it is a harassing letter I would contact your local police department, we all have a right to live in our homes in peace and something like this crosses the line.

MadaleineD (Florida)
Posts: 12

Posted:

Barb: We had a similar problem in our HOA, except it was a Board member that was harrasing the homeowner. The Board member posted a rather nasty note on the clubhouse front door. The homeowner simply had an attorney write a letter to the Board member informing the Board member what the consequences of her actions could be. That's all it took. We now have a new Board that is made up of all adults and we don't have any problems of this sort any more. Of course, we still have a few troublemakers, covenant violations, delinquent fees -- other than that our Board is beginning to work very nicely. We do not have paid management and are happy we don't have to deal with that headache.

DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MadaleineD on 08/16/2007 6:36 PM
Barb: We had a similar problem in our HOA, except it was a Board member that was harrasing the homeowner. The Board member posted a rather nasty note on the clubhouse front door. The homeowner simply had an attorney write a letter to the Board member informing the Board member what the consequences of her actions could be. That's all it took. We now have a new Board that is made up of all adults and we don't have any problems of this sort any more. Of course, we still have a few troublemakers, covenant violations, delinquent fees -- other than that our Board is beginning to work very nicely. We do not have paid management and are happy we don't have to deal with that headache.

Again, can we define "harassing"?

I think there's a distinction between the clubhouse door, where many people are likely to see it, and one's own door, where the mailman, milkman (do we still have them???) and Johovah's witnesses are the only people likely to see it.

Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495

Posted:

I do not believe that we need to define "harassing" as the notes are on private property (clubhouse - HOA, and the front door - owner). From the post the information/letter placed on the door was disparging to a person, and not allowed by the HOA or (assumption) the owner.

There is an appropriate way/manner to communicate with society, and placing a note on a door (IMHO) has never been one of the effective methods. It only seeks to be a negative (insult) to the recipient.

As a few posters have indicated - contact the local police and file a report, if placed on your door. If placed on common area/element, have the HOA board address at the next meeting.

DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By Jadedone4 on 08/16/2007 8:26 PM
I do not believe that we need to define "harassing" as the notes are on private property (clubhouse - HOA, and the front door - owner). From the post the information/letter placed on the door was disparging to a person, and not allowed by the HOA or (assumption) the owner.

There is an appropriate way/manner to communicate with society, and placing a note on a door (IMHO) has never been one of the effective methods. It only seeks to be a negative (insult) to the recipient.

As a few posters have indicated - contact the local police and file a report, if placed on your door. If placed on common area/element, have the HOA board address at the next meeting.

My point is that some people are just plain overly sensitive. If I put a note on someone's door that says "I think you're doing a terrible job running our Association", one might consider that harrassing, but I would consider it perfectly appropriiate. If they wrote "If you pass one more stupid assessment I'm going to blow up your home", then that's a completely different matter.

Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495

Posted:

David, my point.... even if it is a Chinese food delivery menu, or from the local pizza joint - it is still an unwanted note placed on the door, and the owner (clubhouse = HOA, door = resident/member) has the right NOT to be bothered, and only that person makes the distinction of what bothers them....

DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By Jadedone4 on 08/17/2007 3:28 AM
David, my point.... even if it is a Chinese food delivery menu, or from the local pizza joint - it is still an unwanted note placed on the door, and the owner (clubhouse = HOA, door = resident/member) has the right NOT to be bothered, and only that person makes the distinction of what bothers them....

Your point, unfortunately, doesnt help to define harrassment. A chinese menu is not harrassment. A friendly note, or slightly unfriendly is not harrassment. unwanted and harrassing are two completely different ballgames, and require 2 completely different responses.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DavidT1 on 08/16/2007 6:39 PM

Posted By MadaleineD on 08/16/2007 6:36 PM
Barb: We had a similar problem in our HOA, except it was a Board member that was harrasing the homeowner. The Board member posted a rather nasty note on the clubhouse front door. The homeowner simply had an attorney write a letter to the Board member informing the Board member what the consequences of her actions could be. That's all it took. We now have a new Board that is made up of all adults and we don't have any problems of this sort any more. Of course, we still have a few troublemakers, covenant violations, delinquent fees -- other than that our Board is beginning to work very nicely. We do not have paid management and are happy we don't have to deal with that headache.

Again, can we define "harassing"?

I think there's a distinction between the clubhouse door, where many people are likely to see it, and one's own door, where the mailman, milkman (do we still have them???) and Johovah's witnesses are the only people likely to see it.

David:

Straight from the dictionary:

"Harassment refers to a wide spectrum of offensive behavior. When the term is used in a legal sense it refers to behaviors that are found threatening or disturbing, and beyond those that are sanctioned by society."

A threatening note left on my door whether anyone can see it or not is harassment by definition.

DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BradP on 08/17/2007 7:09 AM

Posted By DavidT1 on 08/16/2007 6:39 PM

Posted By MadaleineD on 08/16/2007 6:36 PM
Barb: We had a similar problem in our HOA, except it was a Board member that was harrasing the homeowner. The Board member posted a rather nasty note on the clubhouse front door. The homeowner simply had an attorney write a letter to the Board member informing the Board member what the consequences of her actions could be. That's all it took. We now have a new Board that is made up of all adults and we don't have any problems of this sort any more. Of course, we still have a few troublemakers, covenant violations, delinquent fees -- other than that our Board is beginning to work very nicely. We do not have paid management and are happy we don't have to deal with that headache.

Again, can we define "harassing"?

I think there's a distinction between the clubhouse door, where many people are likely to see it, and one's own door, where the mailman, milkman (do we still have them???) and Johovah's witnesses are the only people likely to see it.

David:

Straight from the dictionary:

"Harassment refers to a wide spectrum of offensive behavior. When the term is used in a legal sense it refers to behaviors that are found threatening or disturbing, and beyond those that are sanctioned by society."

A threatening note left on my door whether anyone can see it or not is harassment by definition.

So why is that directed at me, when Jaded is the one confusing "unwanted" with harrassment.

And since no one has said that the note was threatening, your post has no value. I was asking the content of the letter, because if it wasn't "threatening", then it wasnt harrassing. And Jaded's comment that unwanted and harrassing are equal is just plain wrong. The OP didn't reveal anything about the content of the note, and "rather nasty" to one person doesn't mean its harrassing. Saying "Brad has a big nose" isn't harrassing, but its rather nasty. So without the content of the note, you simply can't answer the question that the OP is asking.

Get it?

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

David:

Harassment is any unwanted behavior that continues. If I call you everyday at 5:00 pm and tell you that you are dumb that is harassment, I think everyone can agree on that. The letter doesn't have to be threatening, it just has to be unwanted. It doesn't have to be in view for all to see.

If I tell a girl at work she is cute, if she doesn't want those comments that is considered harassment, no one else has to witness it either.

DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BradP on 08/17/2007 7:40 AM
David:

Harassment is any unwanted behavior that continues. If I call you everyday at 5:00 pm and tell you that you are dumb that is harassment, I think everyone can agree on that. The letter doesn't have to be threatening, it just has to be unwanted. It doesn't have to be in view for all to see.

If I tell a girl at work she is cute, if she doesn't want those comments that is considered harassment, no one else has to witness it either.

Oh, did I miss something? Were there multiple signs left on the OPs door?

Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495

Posted:

1. What action should be taken with a homeowner who posts a harrassing letter on a board member's front door for all to read?

2. Who should take the action? The Board member or the HOA management company?

3. Does the board member being harrassed have the legal right to request that the management company send a letter to the homeowner to advise that posting of, or the act of sending harrassment letters is not permitted against a board member?

Thank You,

The OP, states plural in the above....

Each person has the right to not be bothered by another - this includes posting notes on doors. As you have stated, this is largely subjective (as to who determines what is harassing, unwanted, etc) - however, my post, and the catalyst for this thread have established that the notes left were not wanted....

MicheleD (Kentucky)
Posts: 4,491

Posted:

"So without the content of the note, you simply can't answer the question that the OP is asking.

Get it?"

Interesting, David, since this exactly the same type of thing you do -- post a scenario, and when people ask for clarification on key points that will help them form valid responses, you fail to provide that detail.

Glad to know that there are instances where you do agree that more information is better than less. Kudos.

BrianL (Maryland)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Did anyone actually read David's posts? He is making some good points. If you stick to the actual question of what should the HOA do about this situation. If the harassment is that of the legal sense, ie threats etc, the answer is simple, its a police matter and the HOA should stay out of it. As far as "continued unwanted behavior", thats a pretty broad definition. If my neighbor habitually used his power mower during my dinner hour, is that harassment? Mabe, mabe not. Certainly the police wouldnt think so, but it would sure "bother me". One of David's points I believe was that "harassment" can be very subjective and oversensitive people will always see the sniper on the grassy knoll. The OP only said the letter was harassing. No details. If I wrote a polite letter stating a differing opinion to one of my BODs, I know he would be upset and "feel" threatened. Is that harassment? Not to any rational person. So then the question to me becomes, if the so called harassment doesnt rise to the "call the police" level, what should the HOA do? Does the HOA want to get into deciding what is harassment and what isnt? You want the HOA to stop any behavior that "bothers people". LOL. Good luck with that. You will have people complaining about other's behavior 24/7. In the OP's case there are some simple steps. Pass a rule requiring that any letters posted on the clubhouse must be vetted by the HOA first. Otherwise, rip it down. If someone posts a letter on a private door, then IMO, that homeowner should assume responsibility for his own home. Warn the offender that any further incidents will result in a police call for trespassing or possibly harassment.

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Brian:

I think common sense can dictate this scenario. Your scenario about the lawnmower and the scenario about posting a harassing letter on someones door is comparing apples to oranges. I was responding to the scenario above which was posting on someone's private residence which is unwanted, harassing and trespassing. Using a lawnmower is governed by local noise ordinances. Harassment is a police matter, not an HOA matter, I think we can all use common sense to dictate which behaviors fall into which.

BrianL (Maryland)
Posts: 23

Posted:

BradP,

Harassment is any unwanted behavior that continues. If I call you everyday at 5:00 pm and tell you that you are dumb that is harassment, I think everyone can agree on that. The letter doesn't have to be threatening, it just has to be unwanted. It doesn't have to be in view for all to see.
If I tell a girl at work she is cute, if she doesn't want those comments that is considered harassment, no one else has to witness it either.

And I was responding to this as well as some other comments above. The point I was trying to make (and I will use your orange) is that if someone calls me every day and calls me dumb, should I expect the HOA to do anything?

BradP (Kansas)
Posts: 2,640

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By BrianL on 08/17/2007 9:21 AM
BradP,

Harassment is any unwanted behavior that continues. If I call you everyday at 5:00 pm and tell you that you are dumb that is harassment, I think everyone can agree on that. The letter doesn't have to be threatening, it just has to be unwanted. It doesn't have to be in view for all to see.
If I tell a girl at work she is cute, if she doesn't want those comments that is considered harassment, no one else has to witness it either.

And I was responding to this as well as some other comments above. The point I was trying to make (and I will use your orange) is that if someone calls me every day and calls me dumb, should I expect the HOA to do anything?

Brian:

No, it is not an HOA issue and I said earlier that it shouldn't be. That is an individual issue that the homeowner is responsible for and if they feel is warranted should contact the police. As I stated in an earlier post I received via mail some disturbing letters and knew the origin, I contacted the police and did not involve my HOA.

BrianL (Maryland)
Posts: 23

Posted:

Great, then we agree.

DavidT1 (Florida)
Posts: 51

Posted:

This is like the twilight zone. What a bunch of loons.

Jadedone4 (Virginia)
Posts: 495

Posted:

DavidT1, you joined up, so that is the company you are keeping... or not keeping after today (maybe).

Life is like a box of chocolates.......

DJ1 (Ontario)
Posts: 798

Posted:

Seems simple enough, IF you know who wrote the letter, advise them in writing not to come on your property again or you will consider it trespassing and pursue the matter. Can't post anything on the door if you can't come on the property...unless you get some kid to to skirt the intent of the homeowner!