HOA pool trespassers/vandalism

We have one small pool in our HOA and are fighting trespassers constantly. The usual scenario is that a couple carload of teens pull up and all at once, there's a dozen kids taking over. The pool is on a public street with easy access, and there's a key code at the gate (which has been the same code for the last 4 years, and all the high school kids have it.) The kids easily hop the fence if they don't happen to have the code.

Any residents at the pool usually bail out and leave. The kids jump in the pool in their street clothes and shoes, smoke and toss cig butts, throw food around, curse, throw chairs/trash in the pool, and use the bathrooms for ***, leaving used ****'s on the floor.... I have also been told that there are drug deals going down in the parking lot. We even had a homeless guy living in the men's room last season.

Last year, one of the board members came to the pool and asked (group of 6 teens) for a pool card, which of course they didn't have. They surrounded him, yelled at him, calling him a racist--but when they realized bystander me was recording them, and was on the phone to the police, they filed out and left, not before trying to vandalize my car on the way out of the parking lot! Needless to say, it's probably a matter of time before a resident gets assaulted.

We have no monitors, security guards, or video cameras at all. We are a small neighborhood of 5 streets, and there's no funds available to even get the gate code changed! The only way to know if someone is a resident is to ask to see their "pool card" which is issued each year. Then you are supposed to ask the person to leave if they don't have it, as they're trespassing, and call the non emergency police number if they refuse to leave. Most residents are too intimidated to ask for the card--afraid to offend legitimate residents, and afraid to confront trespassers, especially if they outnumber you. And it's crazy, because you just want to relax and enjoy yourself and not have to police everyone who comes in, or arrive and ask people in the pool to get out and pull out their card for you.

Our local police department does not operate any kind of "neighborhood watch" program here. We have asked the board to change the gate code (would cost $1500), a key fob type system for the gate (Cost $4,000), for security cameras to be installed, anything...but....no $$$ available.

I have considered checking out the legality of placing a motion sensor trail cam in the woods in back of the property, and footing the cost myself.

Any ideas?

Yeah y'all have to decide to spend the money or essentially, from what you wrote, give up your pool.

Video everything every time ...set traps for them ...call police in advance and tell them you will be there throwing them out.

Make sure police know each time ....

Assign watch teams to the at the pool during normal hours.

Take photos of the cars and plates.

File formal charges against the owners of the cars.

This requires work - and some risk.

If you’re not willing to do all this, and more, close the pool.

And, if you have a mandatory association - raise the dues to account for additional security. If the neighborhood doesn’t want to bear the costs, shut it down.u

I can imagine 1500 being something a HOA can't afford. It only can spend what it collects in. Our HOA a 1500 expense would been hard to come up with. We'd probably have to put it on the credit card or have a special assessment. Telling someone "We can't afford it" is NOT hiding, lazy, or lying. It is a FACT.

Even IF you do see the budget and think "Well we can change X item" to afford it. There is still ramifications of the decision and an agreement of the board to do so. Doesn't mean that there isn't another more pressing project that money needs to go to before that one.

So don't indicate a Board is being deceptive or lazy because they say there is no money. That is one of pet peeves I had with our membership when I had to deny something. It turns out when I left, they did approve those things I told them we had no money for. You know what happened? They spent the entire budget of the HOA for next month's bills. Left the HOA broke and had to have a special assessment to pay the bills... So don't assume.

This is a major capital asset - either it is supported by the constituents - or, it isn't.

In other words, everyone knows there is a pool and it has costs associated - if the dues aren't supporting the pool (including security, access equipment, maintenance on the access equipment, etc), you raise the dues - immediately. If the members don't want to pay for the pool, shut it down.

A half way supported pool is dangerous, an easy target for idiots like these kids ...

Then enough isn't being collected and kept in reserves. $1,500 is a very small amount of money for an HOA. Is it a tiny one with very few homes?

Forgot to include that the money doesn't come from "reserves" for such things like additional security at a pool. Reserve money is usually for capital improvements such as roof repair/replacement or road works.

A HOA is a non profit. So we set our dues to collect what we spend onoperations. We can raise dues yearly up to 5% via board vote. Any higher it is majority member approval. A special assessment requires a membed majority vote. It has to be for a specific purpose. It can not be random because we need more money.

You do not seem to understand fully how a budget works in a HOA. It is not that simple. You know how long it takes to get a majority vote of membership to approve and then raise money? Months if not years. That is if you everything right.

Even if put on a credit card we now have to add a credit card payment to the budget. So pay longer and more interest. Getting a loan is even worse.

I understand the budget issue. We can only raise assessments every five years, and then only in accordance with the average consumer price index. That means we are 5 years behind the cost of living whenever we do raise them. We also cannot impose a special assessment. Unless you are the federal government, you can't spend money you don't have, no matter how bad the need is.

I think security cameras (which can be inexpensive) might work as a deterrent, or as someone mentioned, fake cameras. Another thing to consider is pool fees, if your governing documents will allow it. It won't be popular among those who use the pool but I think it's fair for those members who use it to pay a little more.

What planet are you living on? A HOA can't just randomly spend money. It has to be planned out and approved. Sometimes it's by the board. Sometimes it's by the membership. We don't raise dues 5% every year just because we can. What if we just need only a 3% raise?

How long do you think it takes to process through for any raise? Our elections for a new board is in January. We have meetings 1 time a month. It would be February before the 1st board meeting. Then that meeting they'd have to agree to the 5% raise. That would take till March's meeting before it would be officially approved. Once approved then it would have to be sent to the membership who would need to make the adjustment. Considering some pay auto-pay they'd have to go to their bank. Others write checks but may forget for a few payments. So we'd have to go remind them. Plus those who did not pay the change would have to be added to their amount owed.

The reality is that loans are generally a bad idea for a HOA. Credit cards are not good decision but for emergencies. They add to the debt load of the HOA. Special assessments may not pass or take an extremely long to time to pass.

A HOA is ONLY funded by it's owner's for it's owners. It doesn't get money from anywhere else. So it isn't like we have a money tree to pull money off of.

Well don't assume that other's live this way. Most of us don't. We live in the world of REALITY. That means that our budgets are not willy nilly and we can afford stuff. It really irritates many of us board members here when someone says a flippant remark of "Well 1500 isn't hard to raise/or that you should investigate if the board is lying about their finances". Really? You elected the board to run the budget on your behalf. It's already hard enough to create a and release a budget every year, never the less have someone decide your HOA is lying/hiding information about it.

I don't know what your assuming about your own HOA. It doesn't sound like it's even possible to be doing the things you claim. Otherwise, your constantly paying increases on your dues or paying special assessments every month. Plus you don't spend from your reserves. That is for capital issues. It sounds more like a savings account more than a reserves if your HOA is drawing from it.

Just don't advise people to go to their board and bug them to death about an expense they already stated not able to afford. Honestly, it is completely disrespectful and makes people uncomfortable dealing with the accusations that aren't accurate. Nothing bugs me more when someone is telling me I am lying or hiding something when I am above board and as honest as they come. If you can't take my word and then disparage it, it ruins everything for everyone.

Melissa wrote: "A HOA is to spend as much as it collects. We did not have "reserves". Only thing responsible for was lawn care but we did have things like a Clubhouse/pool..."

That your former HOA didn't have reserves for the many aspects of a clubhouse and a pool says a lot about it and that HOAs board. All HOAs should have reserves and they are required in CA. In Helen's case, it sounds like they need an immediate injection of cash to beef up their pool security in some of the ways suggested here. Perhaps no Owner vote is needed in TX for a special assessment of $20-$50 per 100 homes to get started. And then raise dues the normal time of year for the next year.

Helen, what does your contract with your MC say? If they aren't abiding by it, the Board should fire them and get a new one.

If your Board, and I assume you're not on it, don't put money into the pool's security, as George advises, close it down. Now that the develop has both a lot of your HOA's lots, the developer has a big vote. Since he already owns them, I think It's a good idea to approach him and point out the problems with the existing pool.

Helen,

That isn't going to work - certainly not long term.

This is kinda going nowhere unless you address the issue - you have an expensive capital item with major issues in your neighborhood, and the Board (and the Membership) are not acting to solve it.

Either raise the dues to solve the issue, or fill the pool in (leaving it empty is a major safety issue - leaving it full but not pumping and filtering is a major safety issue).

You must act vice imaging that self help is going to work.

If you're going to the time and trouble to get a bunch of neighbors involved with their time & $, why not go all out and get rid of your Board via a recall? You and others may wish to step up and serve. on the Board. Perhaps the developer who bought a bunch of lots would like to be on your Board.

As you can see, I still mainly agree with George, here.

If you can do that, why not do whatever the legal process is for raising dues or having an assessment to properly remedy the situation via the HOA?

I'm not sure it's a good idea legally to use your own funds and become de facto responsible/liable, for one. Two, the other way just makes more sense in general.

I don't have your docs, obviously, but we can require a special meeting be called, require dues/assessments that the BOD refuses, by 51% owner approval. You can get a legal proxy drawn up cheaply and get your 51% signatures (or whatever your docs call for).

What kind of entry system do you have that costs $1,500 just to change the code? I manage several properties, with varying types of entry systems, and I have never paid more than $100 to an intercom company to change an entry code.

I sure agree with you JohnC, a big add on like you mention is a capital improvement because it doesn't already exist. Most folks think it's best to have Onwers at least give an advisory vote on a capital improvement, especially if it over x% of your annual budget.

Some think reserves are for capital improvements and they were very mistaken.

In Helen's case, we don't even know if her HOA has reserves or what those reserves cover. For her pool issues, probably only extending the h fence and upgrading the entry system can come from reserves.

Adding cameras and/or security personnel would be paid for by a special assessment with security being part of their operating budget in the future. Cameras would be added to your reserves study (if you have one).

I still urge you, Helen, to read your contract with your flashy MC. Maybe they SHOULD be more active about your pool situation.

Good advice, Kelly. We have a fob system and fobs are deactivated when the resident moves. We also have occasionally deactivated them for Owners who're delinquent, which we may do per our CC&Rs.

IF you have reserves, Helen, the Board can use them to update your pool entry system. If there's absolutely nothing in your operating budget, you can borrow from reserves to purchase a camera system. If like CA, you must show owners how you'll pay back your reserves account. This often would involve a dues increase for the next fiscal year.

You certainly can call the police about trespassers. Your HOA really could be liable if a trespasser is injure, as Kelly suggested. I looked into this once and, in your case, Helen, a fence that's easy to hop to get to an "attractive nuisance" like pool could make your HOA even booker than it is now. Maybe the liability topic will interest your Board into acting to protect and maintain this common area HOA asset.

A few days late to the party but we are in a pretty similar situation although we took control before it got to the point you are at.

For background we are about double your size with 200 homes

We did the following

1) Installed a key card entry system - this eliminated much of the trespassing (and improves dues collection since you can turn cards off).
2) Installed a camera system
3) Temporarily hired a private security company a few hours a week for a few weeks to curb the initial problem - it stopped pretty much immediately

We know we have had a few issues with fence jumpers but nothing major since installing our systems until recently. Some kids recently scaled the fence in the middle of the night and had a party then decided to vandalize our pool on their way out. They damaged the pool liner which will lead to about a $1500 repair including the cost of having to drain and refill the pool.

We are upgrading our camera system to be much higher quality video and investing in some better lighting since our trespassing happens late at night.

My advice is similar to others - spend the money now to solve the problem as it WILL get worse or just close the pool completely. Eventually someone will do enough damage to your pool that you will either end up closing it or having a special assessment to cover the cost of repairs that you will wish you had taken action.