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JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
This is for a condo association in Texas. When I moved here, and for many years after, we hired off duty State Troopers.

One of their most important tasks was to go to the pools (especially) and all other amenities every 30 minutes to make sure everyone had their amenities card. Ejected trespassers, and sometimes people who live here but didn't have their cards.

They came on duty when the office closed M-F until midnight or so, then on the weekends in the summer months, they did shifts in the day also, and stayed later at night.

First they got rid of the troopers and went to some regular security company, but now they have cut their hours down resulting in pool pandemonium daily.

We are a large complex with two pool areas. One has the smaller, more shallow ones, and there isn't much trouble there. The trouble is with the main area, which is gigantic. Two pools, one of them has water volleyball, we have a hot tub in a gazebo, and then picnic table areas with grills and such.

It's really nice, and surrounding us are complexes with no pools, or pools that aren't as nice, and so people want to trespass into ours.

A lot of them get rowdy when asked to leave, and when the office is open, a staff member can call police to criminally trespass them, but after 5:00, we are on our own.

To me, this is insane. Everyone has different ideas about what is important to spend on, and people can disagree, but what I am seeking is strong arguments to make to the board about the necessity of security.

I don't think they will care much about the personal feeling of greater safety I have with them here! Before, I remember the Troopers saying we are really not here to guard residents, though we do respond if there is a trespasser or an incident anywhere, what we are primarily hired for is to protect the office and amenities (association responsibility areas) which leads me to think that should be the focus of my arguments.

I am new at being involved and my friend who is more experienced with it (and adviser to the board now) feels exactly the opposite, so she is of no help! She is one of the former board members whose first task was to get rid of the troopers.

She just keeps saying 'We can't afford it' but also keeps talking about how to solve this pool pandemonium. Obviously, I keep saying the only solution to that is security! Or at least SOME type of staff member with authority to call police and trespass people. Which goes back to 'we can't afford that', so in essence she wants the problem solved in some magical way I cannot grasp. Well, she wants the police to come but they aren't going to police our pool all the time, that is what private security is for.

I'm wondering if part of why we chose to afford it before is liability, which would be a strong argument to make now if that is the case. Otherwise all I have now is we should be safe and secure at the pool, not subject to trespassers who cause trouble. One incident recently there was a group of at least 15 people who started trouble with some residents and ended up cussing and threatening them. I think the police did come that time, but this is a frequent type of occurrence that just needs to be solved properly imo.

They by-laws say something about 'defending the property from liability' but that was probably language regarding insurance. Anyway, ideas?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Conduct a secret ballot vote (making it look official) and if a majority of homeowners say yes, then raise the dues to accommodate the vote.

For instance, 300 homes, 151 owners MUST vote yes. Make sure the ballot information clearly outlines all options. Sorry, someone is going to have to take the lead if this is what either you or other really want. BUT, it will come at a price.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
While I was penning a draft to bring this up to the President (we are on a friendly basis. I can talk to him without doing something formal) I thought more about liability.

They used to make sure there were no glass bottles. There is no one to do that now.

And what about if someone is hurt due to lack of enforcement regarding non-residents at the pool? And even residents, we can have only 3 guests. 4 people per amenity card only.

Every year when we had security, especially on Holidays, it has been madness for the poor Trooper on duty.

Everyone wants more guests, don't want to be arsed to go get their card if they forgot it, etc. Trespassers galore. I'm talking mobs sometimes. 20 unruly people screaming that they are not going anywhere. This isn't right for residents to deal with on our own.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 06/14/2018 8:27 PM
Conduct a secret ballot vote (making it look official) and if a majority of homeowners say yes, then raise the dues to accommodate the vote.

For instance, 300 homes, 151 owners MUST vote yes. Make sure the ballot information clearly outlines all options. Sorry, someone is going to have to take the lead if this is what either you or other really want. BUT, it will come at a price.

I don't think we would have to raise dues. We afforded it all this time until recently. And it wasn't because our financial situation got worse. It's because people with different ideas about what we need and do not need got in office.

But if it comes to it, I have done the math and I personally am fine with a raise for it. Part of my calculation in moving here was security. A big part.

We're not going to get the Troopers back. I am in an extreme minority wanting them back. They are not cheap. I just want the regular security to be here 7 nights a week instead of 3. That is not a big change in cost, divided among 500 units.

People who think they don't want it might change their minds when they encounter hooligans at the pool, or come across them walking to and from our pool. I'm getting sort of irritated with hearing about the problem, but refusing the solution.

My friend's advice is to tell the police that we feel 'threatened'. I think that is trying to have the police do our private security for us, on the taxpayer's dime, and when they do come, I know it's not in their prerogative to check amenities cards and decide who should and should not be there. They can only come for a true disturbance, and I think if people follow that advice and call things disturbances that are not, the police will tell us to knock it off.

In fact, I remember typing this now that at the community meeting with the police they said do not call them everytime someone is merely on the property that someone thinks doesn't live here.

This is frustrating. I want to say can we afford the water bill? (We have a huge water bill, being in Texas with so many acres of grass) with the obvious answer being 'we have to pay that'. Well, there ya go. We have to pay this too.

I truly believe this is a case where refusing to spend on this will cost us more in the end. Whether it's glass in the pool, a physical altercation at the pool (lots of alcohol involved), break-ins/theft, something, or a variety of things.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
The HOA I live in is in the same predicament. The HOA went cheap and hired a security company that pays guards $9 DPH, and all the guards did was sleep in their cars. I suggested a special; assessment that would cover cameras at the pool, changing the locks to digital fobs and it would cover a quality guard company that pays
a higher DPH for the 120 days of summertime high demand use. I even suggested hiring a life guard for the 120 days because a lifeguard would have a bi more clout
and is better knowledgable with pool ruled and regs. AND, AND is still an agent in charge to sign off on trespass citations.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
1. Video surveillance with signage that promises to press charges against trespassers.

2. "No Tailgating" signage - i.e. NO ONE is allowed to let ANYONE in behind them. EVERYONE must fob or key in.

3. Full time lifeguard - their job would also include being a second set if eyes and have the ability to call security (or local police).

I would also go to the local police and ask how they would like to coordinate procedures and responses.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 06/15/2018 9:21 AM
1. Video surveillance with signage that promises to press charges against trespassers.

2. "No Tailgating" signage - i.e. NO ONE is allowed to let ANYONE in behind them. EVERYONE must fob or key in.

3. Full time lifeguard - their job would also include being a second set if eyes and have the ability to call security (or local police).

I would also go to the local police and ask how they would like to coordinate procedures and responses.

We have a camera there. I don't think it's very helpful. I decided this is not one of the things I am going to focus on. I looked in the by-laws about liability and it has a big thing about refusing liability and not requiring security.

I'm going to toss in my 'two cents' after the new board is elected, a simple email focused on the bare facts: There is no other way to keep peace at the pool. That is why we had it before, and I would appreciate their consideration of going back to that.

When other residents mention problems, I am just going to repeat myself like a robot. 'Yeah, well, that is why we used to have security. It's a shame that we don't have that, or at least some sort of staffing anymore.' I'm not going to try and sway anyone.

They have brains. They can figure out for themselves one way or another: We pay for the peace, or we have pandemonium.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Form a neighborhood watch SEPARATE from the HOA. If you and other neighbors are that concerned, then form yourselves a volunteer group to watch out. Nothing wrong with that. Just do not involved the HOA money or resources. A neighborhood watch is for everyone not just members.

Some sees something, report something. Have a phone available at the pool area for safety reasons. Rare to have those now but a landline near a pool may be a good thing. There are steps as individuals you can take to increase security without having to pay someone else to do it.

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
My thought re video surveillance was not so much at the entrance - that is easy, but of the entire pools areas. This can be noted to enable to Association to press charges.

I believe you need to make it look TOUGH, and then make an example out of an egregious case.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Yes... but not alot of people are comfortable with them being recorded in their bathing suits...

Former HOA President
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
They will get over that.

Gyms are also available if they are serious about their concern in front of hundreds of other bathers :-) (I did get the point about his being a large pool complex?)
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 06/16/2018 6:00 AM
Form a neighborhood watch SEPARATE from the HOA. If you and other neighbors are that concerned, then form yourselves a volunteer group to watch out. Nothing wrong with that. Just do not involved the HOA money or resources. A neighborhood watch is for everyone not just members.

Some sees something, report something. Have a phone available at the pool area for safety reasons. Rare to have those now but a landline near a pool may be a good thing. There are steps as individuals you can take to increase security without having to pay someone else to do it.

Some residents are trying to 'police' that but they lack the authority. Others are not trying to do that, they just (understandably) get upset at say a group of 15 being in there and being rude.

Another thing that police can't enforce is that even owners and tenants may only have 3-4 guests, not 10.

There is some sort of 'landline' at the pool. A button to instantly call 911. Police cannot come and check amenities cards and decide who should stay or go, though. I'm pretty sure being cursed at is not considered 'threatening' causing them to come out within minutes. If you say 'I feel threatened' they are going to ask in what way. 'Someone at the pool told me to f off' is not an actual threat.

I had an issue with another owner here many years ago who was cursing at me and actually being threatening, but he wasn't threatening me with imminent physical harm.

I had to wait a long time for police to come take a report. He was gone by the time they got here. Went to his unit eventually to talk to him. We're talking over an hour, and it would have been longer if they had more priority calls that night.

They aren't going to come to remedy a situation at the pool in time, unless there is something more urgent happening.

Police already told us they don't want to be called for every person who a resident thinks doesn't live here. Again, all of this is what our security used to do for us.

They had the authority to demand cards, enforce the number of guests per cards, eject people lacking cards, enforce no glass and other violations, etc.

When that is steadily done, people learn to avoid coming here. Now there is nothing stopping them.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 06/16/2018 7:31 AM
My thought re video surveillance was not so much at the entrance - that is easy, but of the entire pools areas. This can be noted to enable to Association to press charges.

I believe you need to make it look TOUGH, and then make an example out of an egregious case.

More cameras have already been voted down with a hard no.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
If the Board has voted down surveillance, it seems like you don’t have a major problem.

I’m gonna step out of this thread.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
I was able to speak with the Security guy tonight. They have him shifted now from 5:pm to coming on duty at 8:pm. That would account for some of the uptick in pool issues.
JenniferG11 (Texas)
Posts: 667
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 06/16/2018 8:26 PM
If the Board has voted down surveillance, it seems like you don’t have a major problem.

I’m gonna step out of this thread.

I'm not sure what you mean. Cameras don't check amenities cards and oust people lacking them, or make sure there are not 10 people riding on one card, or any of the pool issues that can only be managed by human beings.

We don't have a crime problem large enough to justify the expense of the surveillance the prior board had voted for. They had wanted a state of the art system that covered the entire grounds.

Knowing now that the courtesy patrol has been shifted to coming on at 8:00, that explains to me why there seems to be a sudden uptick in problems. No staff of any kind between 5:00 and 8:00.

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