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GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
We're earning 0.1% interest on our reserve accounts. I suggested putting some of it into CDs. I'm now hearing that it's either too much work or "not worth it". Even if we only got 1% interest, $5,000 a year beats $500. Any thoughts? Treasurer being lazy or are there other good reasons to maybe not do it?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
If you have $500K and depending on the needs of the community, laddering certain amounts of money in CDs would be a wise move, as it is free money, outside of the tax you would have to pay. But, not all people are willing to do that, most HOA boards I have dealt with over 10 years are LAZY.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I think it comes down to how fast one may need that money. Let's say that your hit with a Tornado. It takes the roof off the house/condo. The HOA is responsible for roof replacement. If your money is tied up in CD's, how fast and what penalties do you pay for cashing out early?

My personal opinion is that a HOA's money isn't to be used for investing. The purpose of a HOA is to spend as much as it collects. Plus it may have a Reserve savings fund for those who need it for large projects. (Road, roof, major replacement etc.). Not all HOA's are equal on that front. Our HOA we just took care of lawncare only. So we never needed a capital or long term savings. It would not make sense for us to put money into CD's or money market.

So I can't judge to say it is "laziness". It's also a real need or how close/speed one may need to take the money out. I would never know for sure when reserves would need tapped into and to have the additional tie up of releasing the funds would be a concern. One that may not be worth the few extra dollars one could earn from it.

Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 05/29/2018 5:12 PM

Any thoughts?

Have the discussion and offer to do the work yourself.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/29/2018 8:14 PM
I think it comes down to how fast one may need that money. Let's say that your hit with a Tornado. It takes the roof off the house/condo. The HOA is responsible for roof replacement. If your money is tied up in CD's, how fast and what penalties do you pay for cashing out early?

My personal opinion is that a HOA's money isn't to be used for investing. The purpose of a HOA is to spend as much as it collects. Plus it may have a Reserve savings fund for those who need it for large projects. (Road, roof, major replacement etc.). Not all HOA's are equal on that front. Our HOA we just took care of lawncare only. So we never needed a capital or long term savings. It would not make sense for us to put money into CD's or money market.

So I can't judge to say it is "laziness". It's also a real need or how close/speed one may need to take the money out. I would never know for sure when reserves would need tapped into and to have the additional tie up of releasing the funds would be a concern. One that may not be worth the few extra dollars one could earn from it.

If you get hit with a hurricane or tornado, and you live in those zones, you will/should have insurance. Your co-pay would be the deductible.

When rates wee high and I was involved in my HOA, we would make over $40K a year in interest. That bis serious money and we could do things within the community that others couldn't or wouldn't. I would be stupid or LAZY if I didn't do something. Yeah, I could have sat on my ass like others did, but didn't. Did the community appreciate it, NOPE, and that is one of the reasons I would never live in another one.

You get into big cities you can have a lot of high rise condos. Those are very expensive to operate and require quite large reserves. Such as in Kerry case, I wouldn't want a bunch of 70 and 80 year old with no experience being on a finance committee.

Just saying.
DavidW5 (North Carolina)
Posts: 565
Posted:
These days there are banks and credit unions that offer savings and/or money market accounts that pay 1.0 to 1.5%. The funds are available for withdrawal at all times if needed. This is easy and much better than the .1% rate you are getting.

I use this site to find the best rates:

https://www.depositaccounts.com/blog/

There are short term CD's ( 1 year of less) paying 2% APY.

Do the research and earn some interest for your HOA.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
This is an easy one ...

If the money being considered for investment is small, it may not be worth the time, effort and the relatively small amount of interest income.

If, however, it is 500K - absolutely invest - but, TAKE NO RISK. I might ladder CDs, but I might make more sense, as noted, to grab the 1.0-1.5% available in money market accounts (violate my TAKE NOT RISK) ...
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Divvy up the Reserve Fund into:
Cash (money market account)
1 year CD
2 year CD

Apportion according to expected needs, erring on the side of cash.

Perhaps consider a CD ladder of about 2 years. E.g.
put one-third into cash
put one-third into a 1-year CD
put one-third into a 2-year CD

When the 1-year CD matures, put it into a 2-year CD. Subsequently every time a CD matures, put it into a 2-year CD.

Adjust according to the end-of-life needs of major capital assets.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 05/30/2018 9:47 AM
Divvy up the Reserve Fund into:
Cash (money market account)
1 year CD
2 year CD

Apportion according to expected needs, erring on the side of cash.

Perhaps consider a CD ladder of about 2 years. E.g.
put one-third into cash
put one-third into a 1-year CD
put one-third into a 2-year CD

When the 1-year CD matures, put it into a 2-year CD. Subsequently every time a CD matures, put it into a 2-year CD.

Adjust according to the end-of-life needs of major capital assets.

IMHO, reserve funds should be invested in accordance with the needs spelled out in a reserve study.

Monies needed for projects within a two year window should be placed in a money market account with easy access and no penalty. The rest laddered based on amount to invest. We had $1.5M to invest and could go to 84 months on a laddered program. I think we used about 7 different financial institutions through one brokerage house.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I appreciate all the responses. We're in the midst of reviewing our reserve analysis. Hurricanes and tornados are always a concern around here. So is flooding even though we're not in a flood zone per se. The actual amount spread out in several bank accounts is closer to $750,000. Our next scheduled big-ticket reserve expenditure is expected to be in 3 years with an estimated cost of $320,000. After that there's another 4 years before we get to our biggest-ticket item: roof replacement.

Last year's reserve analysis was significant in that it called for a $50 increase in assessments for reserves contributions spread out over 4 years. The plan was monthly increases of 10, 15, 10 and another 15 each year. The board approved the $10 for this year but there's a good chance that the new board won't approve the $15 monthly scheduled for next year. If they don't approve it we're in for a world of hurt. An additional $5,000 to $10,000 a year influx of interest into the reserves would go a long way toward defraying the shortfall in reserve contributions.

Thanks again. Many of the responses raise issues that sound very familiar, from 80-year olds running the finance committee (and board) to how much should we keep in cash for emergencies. I'd never advocate putting all of the funds in CDs. Maybe half since that would cover our insurance deductible in the event of major storm damage before 2021 when the $320,000 expenditure is planned.

No professionals here since our retired CPA moved out of the community. We're also (badly IMO) self-managed. It may be best to do nothing and avoid any risk. Lots to think about.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I found this interesting article today. It talks about CDs and "brokered CDs". Seems like you can get better rates if you somehow have your money in a brokerage account and then use it to buy the CDs. Sounds convoluted. It also talks about how banks are competing for deposits while offering punishingly low interest rates.

We have always dealt with local banks or, at least, bank branches, where people can go over there to change signature cards every time officers change, or other personal-touch service is needed. Anyone have experience with banking electronically with institutions that don't have a local brick-and-mortar presence in town? And if so, how do you set up remote electronic authorization for the expenditure or transfer of funds into and out of those accounts? I'm thinking like, we have a Wells Fargo branch down the street, but no local branches for any of the institutions ON THIS BANKRATE DOT COM PAGE.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
I have banked for some 30 years now with a bank lacking a brick-and-mortar presence. I also have a checking account with my brokerage. Currently my brokerage has no presence where I live. For over a decade, and usually several times a year, I have transferred money between the bank account and the brokerage account with a few clicks of the mouse. I have bought CDs through the brokerage account and been happy. For safety, I check my two accounts daily. The one drawback for me is when I want to make a sizable craigslist purchase and need a few thousand dollars of cash. My out-of-town bank limits how much I can withdraw from an ATM each day. My brokerage cannot cash checks, but it will accept checks for deposit, and it will mail me a check for the amount I specify when I want to, say, buy a home.

I expect a corporate bank account will have more checks and balances for transfers.

I think for my HOA I would want a brick-and-mortar presence. I see too many cases of HOA embezzlement. I think a local bank would be better for preventing any kind of theft. I feel like crooks know the latter.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
That's sort of how I feel, AugustinD. That's all we need, $100,000 in an e-bank account (even a well-known nationally recognized one) where the Treasurer, being the only one with the password, suddenly goes missing leaving us with a nightmare scenario.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
I have to agree about having a local presence. There are too many cases of non-cooperative board turnovers, what happens when somebody voted out doesn't turn over the password for an account with an on-line bank and disappears?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

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