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KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124
Posted:
Our CCR’s specifically say “above ground pools are prohibited”. Is there a “medical” way around this?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Yeah getting E-coli or something I liked having once... Cryptosporidium... Real medical reasons...

No. You can't have an above ground pool if the CC&R's no Above ground pools are prohibitive PERIOD.


Former HOA President
KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/26/2018 5:45 PM
Yeah getting E-coli or something I liked having once... Cryptosporidium... Real medical reasons...

No. You can't have an above ground pool if the CC&R's no Above ground pools are prohibitive PERIOD.


Not even with a “prescription”?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Sorry. Not even with a prescription. You know what else works like an above ground pool? Your bathtub... Just sayin...

Former HOA President
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I don't think there is any legal grounds for it. I assume inground pools are allowed so you could have a pool for your medical condition. As long as you have alternatives, I don't think a court would override the CC&Rs.
KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124
Posted:
This is what the board is being faced with and some folks say we have to allow it for medical reasons. I agree that the CCR’s say specifically they are prohibited so it shouldn’t be allowed. If there is a valid prescription for water threrapy or a pool/hot tub, then that icould mean a free membership to a gym or ymca. I don’t think it’s a free pass for a prohibited item. Not to mention the fact that it can’t be validated per HIPPA.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
No you do not have to allow it. It clearly states Prohibited. Medical excuse or not. The HOA doesn't have to follow ADA laws as it's not public. I see no reason why the board should or needs to approve an above ground mosquito nest. It is one of those things that will effect attracting buyers. Which is unfair to other's who don't have this option. Plus it basically the HOA couldn't control it. What if they don't care for it? What if it breaks and floods the neighbors? What if a kid climbs over and drowns in it?

Honestly, common sense needs to prevail here. Someone claiming "Medical reasons" doesn't mean you get what you want. Even "Service animals" are falling under more stricter rules.

Former HOA President
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/27/2018 5:13 AM
The HOA doesn't have to follow ADA laws as it's not public.


HOAs and condominiums have to follow the federal Fair Housing Act. The latter prohibits discrimination on the basis of disability. See https://www.hud.gov/program_offices/fair_housing_equal_opp/ReasonableAccommodations15 . I believe every state in the union also has state laws prohibiting discrimination in housing on the basis of disability.

It's hard for me to imagine what kind of disability would require an above ground pool. One cannot do laps and said pool. If it were a jacuzzi, and perhaps the mobility of the person was limited such that it was a hardship to drive to a gym with a jacuzzi, and if I were on the board, I would consider the situation carefully and not outright reject it.
BrianM18 (California)
Posts: 11
Posted:
If they can't afford an in-gound pool, then they probably can't afford to sue association challenging the cc&r based denial.
KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124
Posted:
It was stated that they had recently had hip surgery and it is the only way exercise and have therapy for their joints. Then goes further to state that they can’t use the community pool because of a suppressed immune system. Now I can relate a bit to this as I have CFIDS/ME (if you’re not familiar please look it up) as well as onsetting RA. Welcome to aging! But at the same time, I don’t feel that this gives me a free pass to this specific prohibited item. And again, how can the board verify this with the HIPPA law in place?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Contacting HUD to enforce Fair Housing rights costs nothing. Though I would have to know more to opine on the merits of any FHA claim here.

These days I believe HUD faces disability discrimination claims more often than any other claim of discrimination. Below is a link to a 2016 appeals court opinion that notes how a town prohibited accessory structures like above ground pools, but the town board granted a variance. This was because one child in the household suffered from cerebral palsy and another, autism. Aquatic therapy benefited them. I do not know to what extent the town parsed what the childrens' doctors said. If the disability was obvious, and given all the parents are going through and the legal risk, I would be inclined to be generous.

https://caselaw.findlaw.com/us-2nd-circuit/1738826.html, Austin v. Town of Farmington, NY, 2016.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KP3 on 05/27/2018 7:27 AM
It was stated that they had recently had hip surgery and it is the only way exercise and have therapy for their joints. Then goes further to state that they can’t use the community pool because of a suppressed immune system. Now I can relate a bit to this as I have CFIDS/ME (if you’re not familiar please look it up) as well as onsetting RA. Welcome to aging! But at the same time, I don’t feel that this gives me a free pass to this specific prohibited item. And again, how can the board verify this with the HIPPA law in place?


Google, then get advice from an attorney.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I don't think HIPAA would be an issue. HUD already allows an HOA to require medical documentation of a disability and need for a service or support animal. However, this "disability" is temporary as the person recovers from surgery. Even if you have to allow the pool, which I don't think you do, you could require them to remove it after recovery.

I think the question that needs to be answered is, "is there any other reasonable way for the person to get the therapy they need without violating the restrictions?" That is what HUD is going to consider.

A HUD attorney from one of the Texas offices told me that they welcome calls from HOAs with questions.

https://www.hud.gov/states/texas/offices

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
When I think of medical reasons to have something, I must say above ground pools don't enter my mind. I usually think about things like wheelchair ramps or expanded doorways - something a person with a permanent disability needs to live in his/her home. Hip surgery doesn't always mean permanent disability - why can't this person go to an outpatient rehab center to get water therapy?

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SheliaH on 05/27/2018 12:58 PM

Hip surgery doesn't always mean permanent disability - why can't this person go to an outpatient rehab center to get water therapy?

Although they could, I do believe that there would likely be better control of water chemistry at a home pool. Of course, a hot tub might provide the same benefit without having an above ground pool.

Additionally, a water therapy pool can be set into the ground.

Keep in mind that a 30 foot diameter pool is not needed for therapy. A water therapy pool (aka endless pool) is typically a 7 foot x 13 foot pool approx 4-5 feet deep. They can even be installed in a basement or garage.

Outpatient physical therapy centers typically have all the equipment they would require for therapy.

If the request came to me, I would do one or more of the following:

1) Disapprove per the CC&Rs.
2) Approve on medical reasons but must be removed by mm/dd/yyyy
3) Seek a legal opinion

GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Get legal opinion - assuming it would be at worst neutral, tell them firmly no.

This is a slippery slope.

Personally, it sounds like nonsense to me!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KP3 on 05/26/2018 9:37 PM
This is what the board is being faced with and some folks say we have to allow it for medical reasons. I agree that the CCR’s say specifically they are prohibited so it shouldn’t be allowed. If there is a valid prescription for water threrapy or a pool/hot tub, then that icould mean a free membership to a gym or ymca. I don’t think it’s a free pass for a prohibited item. Not to mention the fact that it can’t be validated per HIPPA.

They are calling your bluff. I say reject it based on the Covenants and throw the ball back in their court.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
KP3 what do you mean by above ground pool?
If it's an outright swimming pool then the petitioner really don't have a leg to stand on, no pun intended.
If the petitioner wants a jacuzzi style wave, lap pool, then those have a legitimate therapeutic purpose and value.
KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124
Posted:
https://images.homedepot-static.com/productImages/158c4b6f-d96a-4f49-b6ab-ea48002f188c/svn/gray-blue-wave-above-ground-pools-nb3004-64_1000.jpg

Above ground pool similar to the image. I know what a wave pool or endless pool is. I have considered one myself but they are quite pricey.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
I'm sorry, I get the impression that they are trying to have a pool and simply trying thearpy as an excuse.

I'm not a medical professional. That said, to me, I don't believe that the type of ladder shown would be safe for someone recovering from a hip replacement.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Again. I would deny them the pool. It is not a temporary structure and there are other options. You said you all have a pool. Well then they can use it. The answer is in the CC&R's medical or not. The doctor just gave them the excuse but probably said here you deal with your HOA.

People who get hip replacement have plenty of therapy options and rehab centers. Oh and those pools won't be "private". So that is their own issue. That doesn't have to be everyone's. The HOA is NOT one person but EVERYONE. So it doesn't make sense to bow down to one person's wishes when it will damage everyone.

An above ground pool is banned for many reasons. Plus they don't add value to a home. Pools are attractants but end up like a boat. Nothing but sinking money into it...

Former HOA President
KP3 (Texas)
Posts: 124
Posted:
Thank you all for your input. Much appreciated!!
GlenM4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 141
Posted:
My mother had same issue, she needed a small pool, but was not allowed. Not sure why it helped, but she had a nerve issue in her foot / lower leg and was very hard to walk. So she really would have a hard time going to a local gym. and public pools have so many kinds she was always scared someone would accidentally trip or bump in to her leg. But she found just sitting in a pool would help calm down the nerve pain. The in-ground pool we could not have cause we did not have enough room in back yard for it thus we could not get a permit. We ended up getting a Hot tub, and it may of even worked out better for her.

I would just suggest the alternatives. and if they still persist just ask a lawyer.

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