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AlexM1 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 287
Posted:
Is there any time set that an ARC form must be approved by the HOA Board and the approval sent to the individual subtitling the RC?...In other words, an individual prepares and then submits an ARC for work they plan to undertake. Is there any established time that the approval must be returned to the person submitting the ARC? I can find nothing in our CC&DRs or any of our established rules.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
This may or may not be addressed in your State statutes or within your governing documents.

Virginia, at one time, said the approving authority had 30 days to approve. As our documents were written when that law was on the books, it was echoed in our governing documents. That law was amended to remove that section. Fortunately, our governing documents have not changed and within my Association a request must be approved or denied within 30 days or it is automatically approved.

Typically, most Associations and most laws do not address this.

For me, I would think 30 days would be plenty.
My suggestion, contact the ARC to see what the status is. Perhaps even offering to attend the meeting so the committee can ask questions of you if needed. Be polite, these are volunteers and time to do the work may be an issue to some of them.
JerryD5 (Colorado)
Posts: 218
Posted:
I agree it should be outlined in your association documents. We have ARC guidelines that spell out what must be submitted for approval and the approval process. We have 60 days to approve or disapprove from submission date. Most are pretty easy requests and get approved fairly quickly.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
I know two vastly experienced HOA attorneys where I am. From them, the two main rules for boards are (a) to follow your governing documents and (b) to be "fair and reasonable." When I skim the case law on HOA X v. Member Joe Schmoe ARC disputes, I see the courts expecting exactly these things time and again.

The courts seem to favor HOA members who try over at least several months to get ARC approval, dotting all i's and crossing all t's, documenting everything. If a HOA ignores the request; the request is reasonable (based on certain evidence; what the CC&Rs say, and so on); and the member has sincerely tried to get approval and tried to avoid a legal dispute, then the courts tend to side with the member.

What is "fair and reasonable" here? I agree waiting 30 days is fair and reasonable. (I think the CC&Rs for one of my former HOAs specified 45 days.) In California, for one, statute requires that HOAs set architectural request and approval deadlines that are "prompt." If at some point the HOA gets stupid and takes you to court, then to really ensure the court is on your side, right now keep asking for a response from the HOA. I would say do not go ahead and do what you requested for at least six months and at least one request for a response each month. This is so you have the judge on your side if the HOA takes you to court (after ignoring your requests for a response over many months). I know six months is long. HOAs can be a challenge.

From my reading, the courts are more interested in whether the request is a violation of the covenants or deviates from what the HOA has done in the past. Do you think what you are requesting is reasonable?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
There was a case in SC where a homeowner submitted plans for an add on garage. He heard nothing back from the HOA within the 60 day period as per the Covenants. He built the garage. The HOA took him to court. The court ordered the garage torn down. The court said the HOA not responding in 60 days is not permission to build.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
John, was this at the trial court level? Either way, I'd have to know what exactly the covenant said on the topic of garages before I could opine intelligently on the outcome you described. Also I do see trial courts often getting the law wrong and being overturned, on appeal. A poster here said not long ago that it's 50-50 when one goes to court. I'd say, "It depends, but a 50-50 chance of winning, regardless of the facts and law, is far moreso at the trial court level."
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 05/27/2018 11:10 AM

I'd have to know what exactly the covenant said on the topic of garages before I could opine intelligently on the outcome you described.

I'd would also want to know the language of the 60 day requirement.

If the language simply said that they had 60 days to reply, I would agree that doesn't count as an approval. However, if the language said they had 60 days to reply or the change is considered approve, then I would need to know if the request was in compliance or not with the covenants.
AlexM1 (Oklahoma)
Posts: 287
Posted:
I went thru our various documents again word by word and could find nothing on a time limit when an ARC must be approved...Maybe we will just have to make it a rule ourselves and put the limit at perhaps 30 days....
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Alex,

To me, unless it's full building plans for a home, I believe 30 days is reasonable.
I would also encourage your committee to schedule monthly meetings on the same day of the month (3rd wednesday for example). This way the members know when they need to submit applications by. If there are no applications, the committee doesn't have to meet.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/27/2018 11:16 AM
Posted By AugustinD on 05/27/2018 11:10 AM

I'd have to know what exactly the covenant said on the topic of garages before I could opine intelligently on the outcome you described.


I'd would also want to know the language of the 60 day requirement.

If the language simply said that they had 60 days to reply, I would agree that doesn't count as an approval. However, if the language said they had 60 days to reply or the change is considered approve, then I would need to know if the request was in compliance or not with the covenants.

I had posted it out here once. Thought I kept a copy but cannot find it. If one would care to search the fellow was an orthodontist, or a periodontist or a chiropractor. It took place in Columbia SC. It was a brick garage.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
John, this looks like it: http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/237253/view/topic/Default.aspx

From the linked article:
NEIGHBORS COMPEL MAN TO RAZE GARAGE
PUBLICATION: State, The (Columbia, SC)
DATE: September 14, 2011
Page: 1

"David Matthews, a Columbia optometrist, has agreed to tear down his garage to settle a lawsuit brought against him by his neighbors.
...
In Cameron Court, Matthews built a 20- by 12.5-foot brick garage at the end of his driveway. According to the rules, Matthews had to give construction plans to the association’s board for approval. If the board does not respond in 60 days, the request is automatically approved.
Matthews said he submitted the plans and the board did not respond. The board denies this."

Someone in the thread you started pointed out that this argues for Architectural requests being sent certified mail, return receipt requested.

The legal expenses cost a fortune for all.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
It should also be pointed out that this was a settlement (agreement between the parties involved) vs. a court ruling.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AugustinD on 05/27/2018 2:04 PM
John, this looks like it: http://www.hoatalk.com/Forum/tabid/55/forumid/1/postid/237253/view/topic/Default.aspx

From the linked article:
NEIGHBORS COMPEL MAN TO RAZE GARAGE
PUBLICATION: State, The (Columbia, SC)
DATE: September 14, 2011
Page: 1

"David Matthews, a Columbia optometrist, has agreed to tear down his garage to settle a lawsuit brought against him by his neighbors.
...
In Cameron Court, Matthews built a 20- by 12.5-foot brick garage at the end of his driveway. According to the rules, Matthews had to give construction plans to the association’s board for approval. If the board does not respond in 60 days, the request is automatically approved.
Matthews said he submitted the plans and the board did not respond. The board denies this."

Someone in the thread you started pointed out that this argues for Architectural requests being sent certified mail, return receipt requested.

The legal expenses cost a fortune for all.

Thank you. I am storing this information as the subject keeps coming up.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/27/2018 2:19 PM
It should also be pointed out that this was a settlement (agreement between the parties involved) vs. a court ruling.

Tim

Do you think he would have caved in without his lawyers advising the HOA could win?

The bottom line to me is do not go ahead with a project without specific ACC/BOD approval or you are asking for expensive trouble.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Our HOA documents don't mention any sort of deadline beyond which automatic approval or disapproval occurs. If someone puts in a request tomorrow, 5/28, and our next board meeting isn't until the 3rd week of August, then they have to wait. Some have said this is an unreasonable waiting period. While I personally agree with that, until we amend our documents it is what it is. Everyone knows our monthly board meeting schedule 6 months in advance and the requirement to submit ARC requests at least 3 weeks prior to a board meeting.

We'd welcome homeowners who want to volunteer to work on an amendment to "fix" the problem. People complain that the current process is unreasonable but none of them are willing to discuss an amendment to force the board to act in a reasonably timely fashion. So they have to wait.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 05/27/2018 5:32 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 05/27/2018 2:19 PM
It should also be pointed out that this was a settlement (agreement between the parties involved) vs. a court ruling.


Tim

Do you think he would have caved in without his lawyers advising the HOA could win?

I have no idea.

The article doesn't go into a lot of detail.
We don't know if the garage was a covenant violation.
We don't know what his personal finances were like.
We don't know what his, or his family health were like.
We don't know how much stress this put on him or his family.
There are simply too many unknowns that can factor into making such a decision.

I would also note that this was within a small HOA (9 lots if I recall correctly).
Therefore, once assessments raised to cover legal expenses, I'm fairly positive that it wasn't a great place to live as everyone divided onto sides and it became the talk of the block.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 05/28/2018 5:38 AM
Posted By JohnC46 on 05/27/2018 5:32 PM
Posted By TimB4 on 05/27/2018 2:19 PM
It should also be pointed out that this was a settlement (agreement between the parties involved) vs. a court ruling.


Tim

Do you think he would have caved in without his lawyers advising the HOA could win?


I have no idea.

The article doesn't go into a lot of detail.
We don't know if the garage was a covenant violation.
We don't know what his personal finances were like.
We don't know what his, or his family health were like.
We don't know how much stress this put on him or his family.
There are simply too many unknowns that can factor into making such a decision.

I would also note that this was within a small HOA (9 lots if I recall correctly).
Therefore, once assessments raised to cover legal expenses, I'm fairly positive that it wasn't a great place to live as everyone divided onto sides and it became the talk of the block.


I think the advice of do not start a project without written authorization no matter what the Covenants say is sound advice. Advice I would follow.
GlenM4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 141
Posted:
I know ours says 30 days, and if you don't get a response then its considered approved. This is why with every approval or disapprove i try to get a signature. And if they don't want to sign i just make a note of it.

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