Would suing personally work in Fl?

So your the only one that wants them gone? Seems your already 3 against 1 in this fight. Feel free to take it to court. No one is stopping you. Go for it if it means that much. Just understand the consequences of your actions... Which if you sue your HOA your suing yourself and your neighbors. You could lose and the chicken houses stay. Are you willing to live with that then I say 100% go for it.

The statutes do say that. What's the liklihood that, if you win, you can be awarded your legal fees and court costs? It might be cheaper to buy a few weasels.

About attaching files here... I have had good success attaching small files such as MS Word .doc or .docx and Adobe .pdf files. I don't know what the size limit is but smaller ones seem to get through better than larger ones.

It may be worth it. We've had a surge of "we need to enforce the rules and violations against the CC&Rs" movement here over the last few years, mainly from new owners moving in who can't believe that almost nothing is enforced. We're no closer to enforcing things today than we were 3 years ago. Talk talk talk. We re-wrote a big section of our Rules & Regulations and the new board has shown no interest in enforcing them. When people ask me when that might start happening I tell them, "When enough homeowners give a damn to do something about it." It's really that simple. We went through all of last year with a president who doesn't "believe in" rules and literally nobody gave a damn. It was a real eye-opener. Not that he was an idiot, but that nobody else really cared. If you have a couple hundred owners and only 30 are clamoring for change then I think you have a hard row to hoe.

Hi Noah

So if I heard you right you said there were city and county laws on having chicken coups? So I would call them all and see what they will do for you. They may and have the power to have the chicken coup's removed and they can have some very heavy fines and timelines. Now you could send each violater a letter stating the reason for the letter and the time to rectify the issue. You must put a copy of the bylaw that states what you said you found in your doc's. If you have fining setup then make sure you put that in there. Then if that fails to, get your Association Attorney involved and maybe try Arbitration.

Guy

If the president of the HOA is having the Treasurer write him checks to his name personally.......in my mind that makes him a "professional" not a volunteer so would that help In a law suit.

He refuses to enforce any of the rules, claiming that since for years many of hte rules were not enforced......I finally found someone that will pony up the money, but would it be a good idea to sue him personally? The HOA does not have liability issuance.

I heard that the definition of professional vs volunteer is the minute you accept money from the board, you become a professional. If this is the case than the The federal Volunteer Protection Act of 1997 would not help anyone who is acting as a professional.

We don't have insurance as the dues is really cheap. Also we do have in the Articles of Covenants a "ACC team" but they have not really done any job to speak of for a long time. Also the board does not have a attorney hired to be on hand. The last time they paid a attorney was in 2004.

The jobs their getting paid for is "community functions" but there is one member on the board that is charging a "low hourly wage" to cut the hedges for the front entrance.

I'll have to call around to a lawyer and see what he thinks.

2nd to last meeting the president and vice president said that when they meet for a free consultation the lawyer laughed and said since the HOA has no property and around 2500.00 in the bank account ,that he knows very few lawyers that would bother to sue them as there is not much money to go after.

So the last meeting the President said again he felt the board was pretty much law suit proof. I want to greatly prove him wrong.

1.
How long have the chickens been present in each of the three lots?

2.
Do your covenants indicate that individual owners may seek a legal remedy et cetera against other individual owners to enforce the covenants?

3.
In the last 20 years or so, the legality of chickens in HOAs or on covenant-restricted land has come up at the appeals court level a few times at least nationwide.

I forgot something... you can sue your association for not following the Doc's but you and the people would have to pay the Attorney out of your own pockets. Which he may want 10 to 20 thousand dollars for his retainer. So, you could win the suit to force the board to do its duty and some damages but you will pay more than you will win.

Hi Augustin

In Ohio you can back in 1992 a member sued the board for not enforcing bylaws and he received a $5000 dollar settlement. The Association had the Insurance pay for the Attorney fees. I don't know Florida law that well but isn't there some arbitration that could help them?

Guy

The Covenants say this.

19.01 REMEDIES FOR VIOLATIONS
In the event of a violation, breach, default or noncompliance of any of these
restrictions by any person or concern claiming by, through or under the
successors, or by virtue of any judicial proceedings, the successors and assigns,
and the lot or tract owners, or any of them jointly or severally shall have the right
to proceed at law or in equity to compel a compliance with the terms hereof or to
prevent the violation or breach of any of them. Upon incurring attorney fees
and/or court costs due to said violation, breach, default or noncompliance of the
terms or conditions contained in these deed restriction then the prevailing party
shall be entitled to recover all reasonable attorneys fees and court costs, either
upon prevailing in a court of law or upon cure of any violation, breach, default or
noncompliance by the other party to settlement or compliance.

Exactly word for word. this is registered with the county under the deed restrictions as Amended and Restated Restrictions that run with the land.

I was only told that "any lot owner can sue any other lot owner personally" from this site. I don't know where that poster got that info, but I just figured this site is a great source, so I did not look into FL law to see if that really was the case.

Then you have much bigger problems than chickens and enforcement of your rules.

Noah, you made this statement:

The jobs their getting paid for is "community functions" but there is one member of the board that is charging a "low hourly wage" to cut the hedges for the front entrance.

Thing is if this guy cut off his hand who do you think he would sue? Of course, the Association and when the Association lost Everyone would have to pony up their share to pay the 5 million dollar judgment and that would come out of your pocket. Geno is right you need to get Insurance for the Association.

You need to remove old President and take that job and start putting an Agenda together and I would start by protecting the Association with Insurance then start cleaning up the violations but there may be other important things that need to be addressed.

You may need an Attorney to make sure your Association is compliant with the state laws.

Any work being done should be by a registered, bonded, and insured contractor to protect the Association.

In Ohio, we must have D&O insurance its law.

Sounds Good for info I'll pass that on to other people who are trying to help me gut the current gang that have hijacked this board.

Yea I agree, that guy should not be working up there, as he would do exactly that. He uses hedge trimmers and picks up heavy signs.

Yes there is no by laws, and in the articles of covenants it says that if anyone vacates their position they could appoint someone to hold office TIL NEXT REGULARY scheudled voting time.

The current president was at a meeting that was not publicized (breaking a state statute) did not tell anyone about the meeting excetp for the board members that showed up.
617.0822 Notice of meetings.—
(1) Unless the articles of incorporation or the bylaws provide otherwise, regular meetings of the board of directors may be held without notice of the date, time, place, or purpose of the meeting.
(2) Unless the articles of incorporation or the bylaws provide for a longer or shorter period, a special meeting of the board of directors must be preceded by at least 2 days’ notice of the date, time, and place of the meeting. The notice need not describe the purpose of the special meeting unless required by the articles of incorporation or the bylaws.
History.—s. 48, ch. 90-179.

this took place on Sept 14 2017.......of which the former president announced he would step down, and the vice president "appointed the new president til Dec 31 2019", This would effectively make him a dictator from Sept 14 2017 TIL Dec 31 2019. The regular scheduled voting time is middle of October.

He should of kept office til Oct 2017 and had a official vote. There are no bylaws that have any stipulations that would allow another board member to appoint someone for a longer than usual term. The normal term limit for president was 2 years.

I also feel they borke a state statue doing that as

617.0809 Board vacancy.—
(1) Except as provided in s. 617.0808(1)(f), any vacancy occurring on the board of directors may be filled by the affirmative vote of the majority of the remaining directors, even though the remaining directors constitute less than a quorum, or by the sole remaining director or, if the vacancy is not so filled or if no director remains, by the members or, on the application of any person, by the circuit court of the county where the registered office of the corporation is located.
(2) Whenever a vacancy occurs with respect to a director elected by a class, chapter, unit, or group, the vacancy may be filled only by members of that class, chapter, unit, or group, or by a majority of the directors then in office elected by such class, chapter, unit, or group.
(3) The term of a director elected or appointed to fill a vacancy expires at the next annual meeting at which directors are elected. Any directorship to be filled by reason of an increase in the number of directors may be filled by the board of directors, but only for a term of office continuing until the next election of directors by the members or, if the corporation has no members or no members having the right to vote thereon, for such term of office as is provided in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws.
(4) A vacancy that will occur at a specific later date, by reason of a resignation effective at a later date under s. 617.0807 or otherwise, may be filled before the vacancy occurs. However, the new director may not take office until the vacancy occurs.

So basically 2 statutes far as I was concerned were that Sept night, and when OCT came and went a statute was broke by not letting anyone run for president. And if he does not step down than means Oct 2018 will break it again as that will be 2 times we did not get to vote. Then Oct 2019 as he will be dictator til Dec 31 2019

This is just insanity. I was told I should call the police to inform them about these , but I think they would just say it is not their "jurisdiction"

I found this in another discussion.

720 replaced 617 in the year 2000. Your association may have its original Articles of Inc filed under 617 but if you read "history" on the bottom of any 720 Statutes, you will see that there is referral to 617. CC&Rs and Bylaws should follow what 720 says.

617 was for all Not for Profit corps when originally written and there were no parts of it specifically designed for HOAs until 2000 when 720,(HOAs) 718 (condos) and 723 (mobile homes) were written.

Well that is good cuz 720 is what my HOA book revolves around and I been quoting things from that at meetings.

Insuring Honesty and Integrity
Two Must-Have Insurance Policies for Boards
BY GEORGE LEPOSKY 2013 AUGUST INSURANCE

Of the many thousands of dollars a large condominium, co-op, or homeowners association may spend each year on insurance, two policies that typically cost less than five percent of the total are two of the most vital: crime insurance (often called fidelity coverage) and directors and officers liability insurance (often called simply D&O).

Crime insurance “protects an association against theft or misappropriation of its funds by people trusted to handle them,” explains Paul Mack, president of Mack, Mack & Waltz Insurance Group, Inc. in Deerfield Beach, and D&O insurance protects board and committee members against errors and omissions while fulfilling their duties.

Basically, “It’s 'oops' insurance for the volunteer board and committees, and the association itself,” says Barry Scarr, president and principal agent of Scarr Insurance Group with offices in Sarasota, Seminole and Ft. Lauderdale. “Crime and D&O insurance are separate policies—and an association really needs both.”

Chickens have been here 1 1/2 years. Only talking about pets are in the rule saying " you can have 2 pets maximum , dogs cats fish......

No court cases about chickens as this place has never had people wanting them for 40 years. In the old days the people that were keeping on top of things said , if we don't keep the rules enforced whats next? they will want chickens here or something crazy.....so the very joke that was made in the 80s is reality now.

Well they said there was 8000.00 in the bank now that is PLENTY for a lawyer.

Yes the people with chicken , of which I found out ONe more house yesterday that has them do pay their dues.

I don't follow the idea they had here. In the Articles of the Covenants it states that "ever lot or parcel owner of the area is automatically a member of the association"

but in the "membership guide book" it says they request people to donate 15.00 per single lot and 20.00 / family.

I've talked to people who lived here and they said when this area started in 1978 there was NO dues, and when the developer sold the management to another company in 1986 that is when a 5.00 / year dues was "requested". so there is NOT mandatory dues, but In my mind , dues payment does not matter, as every land or lot owner is a member the second you buy property here.

It does say in the by laws that if someone does not pay their dues the penalty is to not be able to vote.

So that is also why many people don't pay, and they also don't vote.

I'm beginning to believe the HOA has really got their hands full and really needs to spend money fast to get a lawyer as there are more and more people demanding satisfaction for them to act, but the president and former president that shows up to meetings have a major anxiety complex in fear of counter suits. and maybe that is for a good reason.

The HOA here now has the president where he is very timid.

Now there is a mob of people demanding enforcement, and he says "sometime in the future he don't know when but he will get around to it to talk to a lawyer" so now were back to the , well get around to it when we get around to it stuff.

I think there should be a IQ test, and a oath that they will have the backbone to enforce the rules. They have done NOTHING to get 1/2 a mobile home that is behind someons house.

This are has ZERO trailers and someone for some reason has 1/2 a double wide parked bheind his house and it appears someone is parked by it living in it.

Yes i know this is a county code issue and I have reported it personally and I heard form the county worker they will be looking at MONDAY as in 1 day away.....but why I have to do this NOT on the board is just plain ridiculous.

Me personally are more worried about all the people shootoing on 1 acre lots & RV's that are unreigstered and peopel living in them. These are county codes, but all our special HOA rules would make the place 10 times better if enforced.

I hope a lawyers office can guide the HOA right, as this place thru the 70s 80s and 90s was so good that our reputtaiton still holds to this day, despite most knowing that the HOA is a paper tiger.

The issue here is that if the chickens are NOT pets, there is no violation of the covenants. The fact that the owners initially claimed they were pets becomes almost irrelevant in court. The judge may consider it but what matters is whether or not he believes they ARE, in fact, pets, and I think it is very unlikely that a judge would rule that chickens kept in a coop are pets.