Disgruntled homeowners

Started by AdamD1 • 26 replies • 925 views

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AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

So, the Board (including myself) could have done better with this issue we are now facing.

For so long (over a decade) the HOA Board of Directors paid a lawn care vendor to mow areas that are either certain homeowner's/county/developer responsibility. When this new group took over last summer, we kept the contract in place. This year, we redid the entire scope of lawn care and limited it to our front entrance signs and a couple common areas that would need attention.

Some homeowners are very upset that the HOA stopped mowing behind their homes (again, the HOA does not own the areas in question). They only want to yell at us, despite us having open Board meetings which they could have attended to learn what we are up to (agendas are available prior to each meeting online) but again, we are apathy stricken here!

Should the Board have sent letters to homeowners letting them know that this year the HOA will not be providing lawn care behind their homes? Or should the onus be on the homeowner to attend meetings and educate themselves?

I literally had a woman (who has always been very friendly to me in conversation and passing) yell at me on the phone over this and stated she was going to put her house up for sale! She also said she doesn't want to pay dues anymore (only $95 PER YEAR) because the HOA isn't mowing behind her home like it used to.

Any thoughts on this one?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Have fun selling your home but you will owe us the $95 till you do. So I suggest if you want that area mowed that is NOT owned by the HOA, you pay someone. We are no longer going to waste the HOA's money on items that are not part of the HOA responsibility. Then I would ask how they feel the HOA paying for something like that?

People going to be angry and threaten to sue. Guarantee that. I just tell them. If you sue, your suing yourself and your neighbors. If you refuse to pay your dues, we can lien or foreclose. The fight is your own. These are you options...

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamD1 on 05/14/2018 5:09 PM

Should the Board have sent letters to homeowners letting them know that this year the HOA will not be providing lawn care behind their homes? Or should the onus be on the homeowner to attend meetings and educate themselves?

Having gone through a similar membership disgruntlement about cutting down trees, my answer is yes.
The Association should be communicating with the membership what their decisions are and what direction they are taking regarding different issues. A newsletter is a great way to do this. Individual letters are another way.

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 05/14/2018 5:41 PM

"Communicating with the membership..." Is that not done via agendas, open Board meetings, and published minutes? I'm not trying to be facetious, but I thought that was the point of those forms of communication.

Mailing individual homeowners would be cost prohibitive. Newsletter would be better suited, IMO.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

We have a newsletter that goes out once a quarter (sometimes more often).

We have a website with the newsletter, governing documents, etc.

We do flyers to specific homes when needed (parking restrictions for tree work, drainage work being done in their area, etc.).

We send letters for changes in services (trash/recycling), changes in governing documents or changes in assessments.

We send individual letters for violations and assessments.

We still have individuals who claim that they knew nothing of what is being done. We simply point to all the methods of communication and state that the Association provided the info. It's the members option to read or not.

Lets be honest, the point of publishing minutes is a courtesy. The point of publishing an agenda is likely to comply with applicable statutes. The reality is, many simply won't read what is provided. In my opinion, the Association should go above and beyond what they think is enough communication.

I'll give an example: We proposed changes to our Bylaws. These were mailed to all members. The language and reasoning was in our newsletters. The language and reasoning was on our website in multiple locations. The notice for the meeting to vote on the changes included the language and sent to all members. I had one person who called the night before the meeting wanting changes. I told them no. There was plenty of opportunity for membership input over the past 3-4 months and wanting changes the night before the vote won't be entertained because we have notice requirements for voting. Because of the amount of communication we had, I had zero problems and zero misgivings telling that member tough luck.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Adam

Do not cut your nose off to spite your face. If a mailing must be done to notify owners what is or can be done and you do not have the money to do so, it may indicate a more serious problem in you HOA meaning dues are not enough to cover what must be done.

I believe this is not the first time you have said we have no money to operate properly.

Attack the disease versus treat the symptoms.

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By JohnC46 on 05/14/2018 6:22 PM
Adam

Do not cut your nose off to spite your face. If a mailing must be done to notify owners what is or can be done and you do not have the money to do so, it may indicate a more serious problem in you HOA meaning dues are not enough to cover what must be done.

I believe this is not the first time you have said we have no money to operate properly.

Attack the disease versus treat the symptoms.

I agree, but since they are annual dues, we must wait until next year to get a measly $9.50 more per homeowner per year. Some things take time... this is one of them.

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 05/14/2018 6:08 PM
We have a newsletter that goes out once a quarter (sometimes more often).

We have a website with the newsletter, governing documents, etc.

We do flyers to specific homes when needed (parking restrictions for tree work, drainage work being done in their area, etc.).

We send letters for changes in services (trash/recycling), changes in governing documents or changes in assessments.

We send individual letters for violations and assessments.

We still have individuals who claim that they knew nothing of what is being done. We simply point to all the methods of communication and state that the Association provided the info. It's the members option to read or not.

Lets be honest, the point of publishing minutes is a courtesy. The point of publishing an agenda is likely to comply with applicable statutes. The reality is, many simply won't read what is provided. In my opinion, the Association should go above and beyond what they think is enough communication.

I'll give an example: We proposed changes to our Bylaws. These were mailed to all members. The language and reasoning was in our newsletters. The language and reasoning was on our website in multiple locations. The notice for the meeting to vote on the changes included the language and sent to all members. I had one person who called the night before the meeting wanting changes. I told them no. There was plenty of opportunity for membership input over the past 3-4 months and wanting changes the night before the vote won't be entertained because we have notice requirements for voting. Because of the amount of communication we had, I had zero problems and zero misgivings telling that member tough luck.

"the Association should go above and beyond what they think is enough communication. " AGREED! However, in my version of reality here, homeowners, including some Board members, JUST DON'T CARE! Sad but true. There is one or two of our 4 person Board, who hasn't even read our governing docs yet. APATHY! The Board consists of volunteers who live busy lives and can not go above and beyond. We barely make due!

I don't mean to stroke my ego, but the reality is, without my energy, commitment, and push the Association would not be where we are today. I single handedly did so much so we could avoid receivership. I'm not sure the rest of the Association cares anymore, since the threat of receivership is behind us...for now.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamD1 on 05/14/2018 6:47 PM
I don't mean to stroke my ego, but the reality is, without my energy, commitment, and push the Association would not be where we are today. I single handedly did so much so we could avoid receivership. I'm not sure the rest of the Association cares anymore, since the threat of receivership is behind us...for now.

Sure, communications were important in this instance, if only to minimize pushback and the toll this takes on volunteers. But do not beat yourself up. How many hours a week are you putting in, unpaid? On the positive side, I think controversy often gets out the vote and yields some new faces for serving on the board.

In my experience, people care only about the here and now. An "accounting" of all the good one did in the past, so as to put one in the black instead of the red with members, is unlikely to occur. One significant mistake is the proverbial one drop of poison in a tank of water. That one significant mistake is all it takes to make people think one is worthless. I think it's best to get as many people running for the board as possible, so they can have this unpaid work to do and attacks to face.

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

For damage control, I will personally print and deliver a letter to each affected homeowner tomorrow. How does this read?

NOTICE
2018 Lawn Care Changes

Hello neighbor:

In the past, the (#(#(# HOA Board of Directors authorized lawn care behind your home using Association funds. However, the area in question is not "Common Area" of the Association. Thus, homeowner dues can not be used to provide mowing service to areas outside of HOA responsibility. This matter has been discussed in depth at our monthly Board meetings - all of which have been open to the membership.

With these new changes, we know homeowners will understand the situation and take the necessary steps to ensure their entire lawns are maintained during the growing season.
Thank you for your understanding, and if you have any additional questions please feel free to contact me at your convenience.

Pleasant summer evenings,

MY NAME AND CONTACT INFO

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 05/14/2018 6:58 PM

Well said, I appreciate your words. We are going to try to get some interest in homeowners to volunteer for the Board. I made a commitment to stay until my term is finished (will have served just 1.5 years) and then I think it's time to pass the baton on to a homeowner, or receiver

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Your draft letter is good, Adam. Even-toned and rational.

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AugustinD on 05/14/2018 7:23 PM
Your draft letter is good, Adam. Even-toned and rational.

Some people are immune to good advice. I'm not one of them. I come on here to solicit the opinion of others and if I see an area where I can improve on, I'm all for it.

This site has been INVALUABLE!

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

I don't see any problem with the decision but the HOA should have sent out a notification of the change. The owners now have to maintain an area that they haven't had to worry about for over a decade. Anytime there is action required of a member they should be notified, especially if it is a change from how things are normally done.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

I like the letter, too, Adam. Succinct, firm, neighborly.

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/14/2018 5:26 PM
Have fun selling your home but you will owe us the $95 till you do. So I suggest if you want that area mowed that is NOT owned by the HOA, you pay someone. We are no longer going to waste the HOA's money on items that are not part of the HOA responsibility. Then I would ask how they feel the HOA paying for something like that?

People going to be angry and threaten to sue. Guarantee that. I just tell them. If you sue, your suing yourself and your neighbors. If you refuse to pay your dues, we can lien or foreclose. The fight is your own. These are you options...

Delivered the letters today to the affected homeowners. Here was my first email from a homeowner regarding the notice:

Hi Adam,

I received the lawn care changes notice on my porch today and have to admit I am a bit frustrated. I take pride in my lawn care. In fact, at times I have had to cut neighbors yards because they let them grow out of control. I have lived in the NAME OF SUBDIVISION since 2009 and would argue that the area behind my house is very much a “common area.” If you were to sit on my back deck during any given time, you will see many people (from the NAME OF SUBDIVISION) using the space to get to the NAME OF CITY TRAIL. There is limited privacy on my deck because of this “commonly” used space.

Asking me to mow an area that I haven’t had to mow for over 9 years (without warning) is unacceptable. For one, I do not have a mower that could get through the height the grass at it’s current state without breaking my mower. And I do not have the funds to purchase a new mower. Additionally, I have paid my homeowners dues on time, every single year that I have lived here and was never given ANY warning or option for adding my voice before making this this decision.

Given the current state of several of my neighbors’ yards on this side of NAME OF STREET, that area that you are referring is going to become quickly infested with creatures and critters that will wreak havoc on the homes of the people nearby. In the past I’ve watched the giant fancy mowers take about 5 minutes to cut this entire “common area.” It is my intent of this letter that you greatly reconsider this area is be maintained for the homes in the NAME OF SUBDIVISION or we are all going to have a lot more animal visitors than desired in addition to a very uninviting view of the NAME OF SUBDIVISION as you reach the crest of the hill on NAME OF STREET ADJACENT TO HOMEOWNER'S LOT.

In my opinion, the state of the NAME OF SUBDIVISION is quickly going down hill and now this news. From broken down trucks in driveways to piles of debris in yards, why should I invest time and potentially break my mower to maintain an area that isn’t my property. Where are all of my homeowners dues going if this small strip of land can’t be mowed when it has been for over nine years? Perhaps the association can move to emails instead of multiple monthly flyers to save money and use the funds to continue mowing that strip of land or it is going to quickly become a major eye sore. (FYI - Newsletters have been FREE OF CHARGE to all homeowners from the onset.. clearly she is not aware of this despite it being stated at meetings and even published in one of our newsletters!)

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Adam,

lets face it, the comments received aren't really that unreasonable. There are some valid concerns there and something I think the Association needs to look into. Perhaps make a deal with the owner to allow access or to share the cost of mowing.

It's too late now but I would have included, or made available, the PLAT showing who owns the property. I would have also suggested including the phrase liability concerns or concerns of trespassing. Perhaps this can be done in a later response. Acknowledge the concerns, recognize that they are valid but the Associations hands are somewhat tied due to legal concerns. You may even want to identify the actual owner of the other property.

By the way, since the Association has taken this position, what will be the Associations actions if the resident chooses not to mow and the grass grows over a foot high?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamD1 on 05/15/2018 11:49 AM

Where are all of my homeowners dues going if this small strip of land can’t be mowed when it has been for over nine years?

If it's been nine years, you might want to talk to an attorney and have the Association use Adverse Possession to claim the property and then keep doing what has been done in the past. This may actually benefit the Association in the long run.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276

Posted:

We have a situation where about half the lots had homes built on them that do not extend out to the platted lot boundaries. The first half of the lots were platted using the footprint of the homes as the lot boundaries. That leaves about 1,000 sq ft in back of the newer homes that is part of the lots and not common property. The association has been maintaining that land (mowing, landscaping, tree and bush trimming) for more than 25 years.

We asked our attorney last year what would be involved in order to acquire that land and put it in the association's name as common property. He indicated it might be more trouble than it's worth. At minimum each of the 50 lots would need to be re-surveyed. That's about $15,000 unless we got a bulk discount. Then we'd have to go through the adverse posession procedures which would cost more legal fees even if every homeowner wanted to voluntarily hand over their "extra" property. A re-plat would probably be necessary and who knows how much that would cost? And finally, changing the configuration of the common property (we'd end up with about 1 acre more land) might require the approval of ALL owners and possibly their mortgagees as well.

We'd do all that tomorrow if we had $100,000 laying around. OP's situation isn't exactly the same, of course.

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 05/15/2018 1:33 PM

Posted By AdamD1 on 05/15/2018 11:49 AM

Where are all of my homeowners dues going if this small strip of land can’t be mowed when it has been for over nine years?

The area in question is county property. The county is slated to build a large road behind their homes. The first two phases have been planned/work has started. The last and final road phase is Phase III, which is the area in question. In approx. two years, this will be a non issue as there will be a very nice new road, with bike lanes, multi-use path, and sidewalks behind their homes. It has always been platted as a county road, but the county is just now getting around to it.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

In that case, you may want to consider lobbying for a sound wall (for security from the walking/bike path and due to sound from the road).

Personally, if it was only going to be another two years, I think I would have continued to mow and avoid the drama.

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 05/15/2018 2:12 PM
In that case, you may want to consider lobbying for a sound wall (for security from the walking/bike path and due to sound from the road).

Personally, if it was only going to be another two years, I think I would have continued to mow and avoid the drama.

Well as long as you're advocating to use HOA funds to maintain areas outside of deeded Common Areas, would you advocate for using HOA funds to mow the county's strip of grass from the sidewalk to the street in front of my house? If the HOA doesn't, watch out, I'll create drama. Then if I create the drama, would you then be willing to use HOA funds? See my point?

We don't do things at the Board level to please disgruntled homeowners per se. We do things to please our mandate: our governing documents.

TimM11
Posts: 354

Posted:

If the property in question belongs to the county, why aren't they mowing it?

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AdamD1 on 05/15/2018 1:49 PM

The area in question is county property. The county is slated to build a large road behind their homes. The first two phases have been planned/work has started. The last and final road phase is Phase III, which is the area in question. In approx. two years, this will be a non issue as there will be a very nice new road, with bike lanes, multi-use path, and sidewalks behind their homes. It has always been platted as a county road, but the county is just now getting around to it.

So tell the owners to contact the county about maintaining it.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By DouglasK1 on 05/15/2018 2:47 PM

So tell the owners to contact the county about maintaining it.

That is what I explained to the couple homeowners who have so far raised concerns about it.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

From what I've seen, County crews typically only mow once every 3 or 4 months.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By GenoS on 05/15/2018 1:48 PM
We have a situation where about half the lots had homes built on them that do not extend out to the platted lot boundaries. The first half of the lots were platted using the footprint of the homes as the lot boundaries. That leaves about 1,000 sq ft in back of the newer homes that is part of the lots and not common property. The association has been maintaining that land (mowing, landscaping, tree and bush trimming) for more than 25 years.

We asked our attorney last year what would be involved in order to acquire that land and put it in the association's name as common property. He indicated it might be more trouble than it's worth. At minimum each of the 50 lots would need to be re-surveyed. That's about $15,000 unless we got a bulk discount. Then we'd have to go through the adverse posession procedures which would cost more legal fees even if every homeowner wanted to voluntarily hand over their "extra" property. A re-plat would probably be necessary and who knows how much that would cost? And finally, changing the configuration of the common property (we'd end up with about 1 acre more land) might require the approval of ALL owners and possibly their mortgagees as well.

We'd do all that tomorrow if we had $100,000 laying around. OP's situation isn't exactly the same, of course.

This is great information, Geno.

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