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DonG7 (Utah)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Our CC&Rs say:
"The assessments levied by the Association shall be used exclusively to promote the improvement and maintenance of the Common Area and of the improvements situated upon the properties.” That's all.

Would this forbid using assessments for services, like cable TV? (My understanding is that the legal definition of real estate "improvements" are permanent physical structures, which increase value.)

If so, can the general powers typically given to HOAs in the Articles of Incorporation (e.g. to "make and perform any contracts," etc) still be used to justify overruling the CC&Rs specific restriction on the use of assessments?
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
The CC&Rs are generally higher on the hierarchy of documents than the articles (it may be different in your state), so if they conflict, the CC&Rs would prevail. I don't think they conflict, though. There is nothing contradictory in the general powers of the HOA and the restriction on use of assessments.

That being said, couldn't cable be considered an improvement "situated on the properties." I think the clause is so vague that you could use the assessments for cable.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Don,

Where is the cable TV being viewed at?
Is the TV being purchased as a method to lower the cost of internet service?

I have seen the statement you cite from your CC&Rs in many other CC&Rs. However, in addition to that statement, they include:

The assessments levied by the Association shall be used exclusively for the purpose of promoting the recreation, health, safety and welfare of the residents in the properties (including administrative and overhead expense) and in particular for the improvement and maintenance of the Common Areas, services and facilities devoted to this purpose and related to the use and enjoyment of the said Common Area and of the homes situated upon the properties and more particular the Association shall be responsible to carry out the following named functions in and about said Subdivision.

Do your documents have similar language?

DonG7 (Utah)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Thank you. Good questions:

Cable TV is viewed only in residents' homes. We have no clubhouse.

It's purchased merely to get a lower bulk rate, with everyone being forced to pay, even though some prefer different or no services. So, the few are subsidizing the many.

No, our CC&Rs contain no additional language. The section titled "Purpose of Assessments" has only that one sentence I quoted.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This falls more into what the majority of the owners want their dues to pay for. Does a majority of the membership benefit from a mass offering of a cable service? For example: If they buy into the mass cable, does it average out to like $20 of their dues pays for it? That is versus paying for it on their own/having choice and paying $50?

That would be the argument I would present in deciding IF the HOA should pay for cable in the dues or not. Take a vote of opinion. It also may mean the understanding that one may be on their own if the majority votes to pay individually.

I don't think having cable is in any way a "Home Value" item. It's just nice to have the service available at a lower cost if shared amongst all. It's kind of like owning a pool. Not everyone swims but it does attract potential buyers to see one.

Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
If I owned my own pool, should I have to pay to upkeep the community pool if I or my guests never intend to use it?

I have handled a number of cable contracts for HOAs. Some are billed through the HOA, some billed directly to the owner. Ones billed to HOA's, if owner wanted something over the standard contract, their were billed directly.

I did one for my community some years ago. It worked out at $45.00 per home, which included TV, phone and internet, through Verizon. Mobile phone was separate but discounted. Each owner was billed individually with a special code. It ran for two years and then re-negotiated after that period. We only had to get 100 homes to commit, we got many more. Their is power in numbers.
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Don! Cable TV is not viewed anymore as a luxury. it is viewed as a necessity. Cable TV providers now offer internet and telephone services.

Should or could your assessments be used to install cable tv, perhaps. What options are available to the homeowners currently besides Dish & DirectTv?
Does your telephone provider offer internet & TV besides landline service?
Fiber Optic is the reasonable option, but in 10 years it will be obsolete, so you got to weigh the cost into looking way down the road.
DonG7 (Utah)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Here's what I thought is the wisdom of limiting the use of assessments exclusively to the maintenance and improvement of the common area:

It prevents the Board members from signing all kinds of bulk contracts for the things THEY want a discount on, at the expense of the rest who don't want their particular choice. Think of cell or land line phones, Internet, Costco or health club memberships, Schwan's frozen food delivery. It also opens the door for under the table kickbacks.

The already signed contracts would then be used as a "knife to the throat" of HOA members to approve dues increases to pay for them after the signing. This is exactly the situation with our HOA. Our members did NOT approve a ballot vote (2/3 required) to increase dues enough to pay the higher rate for the cable TV contract.

So the Board signed a 5 year contract anyway, behind our backs, without the funds approved to pay for it. Now they're calling for a separate vote later in the year to increase dues that was already rejected.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Don raises an interesting subject. While I can see the benefit to many is it fair that those who do not want such should be paying for such.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Don raises an interesting subject. While I can see the benefit to many is it fair that those who do not want such should be paying for such.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Don,

It's highly likely that the Association receives, or received, funds from the cable company to be the exclusive provider for x number of years. You need to check into that possibility first.
DonG7 (Utah)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Thanks. I do have written proof that this cable TV provider offers HOA managers $500 for bringing business.
But, how might I prove the Board was also offered a kickback, and that they were paid - short of filing a lawsuit and deposing them and the provider?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
HOLD your horses! You said the "Manager's" got a kick back. Are you run by a Management company? HOA board members are typically VOLUNTEER only positions. So if they got a "kick back" what form did it take? Personal checks to each HOA Board member or a check to the HOA? Or was the check to the Management company?

If the check was to the Management company, then it was NEVER a kick-back to the HOA board. The management company is a contractor to the HOA. Many HOA management companies do find/recommend certain vendors for the HOA to use. That is an arrangement the MC makes with their vendors. They most likely tell their vendors they can get them a HOA they manage to give them business. Which gives them the opportunity of kick back to them or other advantages. It does NOT reflect against the HOA board.

Now if the HOA board members' were getting personal checks splitting the money, then I would say that is a kick-back of the bad moral kind. If the check is being written directly to the HOA itself, then that money is to go back into the HOA's budget. Which may break it down to a $500 savings off the contract.

So don't jump to conclusion. Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. So tread carefully...

Former HOA President
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonG7 on 05/09/2018 12:01 PM
Our CC&Rs say:
"The assessments levied by the Association shall be used exclusively to promote the improvement and maintenance of the Common Area and of the improvements situated upon the properties.” That's all.

Would this forbid using assessments for services, like cable TV? (My understanding is that the legal definition of real estate "improvements" are permanent physical structures, which increase value.)

If so, can the general powers typically given to HOAs in the Articles of Incorporation (e.g. to "make and perform any contracts," etc) still be used to justify overruling the CC&Rs specific restriction on the use of assessments?


Are you single family homes or condo??? Potentially that question needs to be answered first to better determine whether or not what you are describing would be considered “common area” or not. In my single family home subdivision my utilities are not “common area”. The utility company simply has a utility easement and our “common area” as noted in our CCR’s is our irrigation. What does your CCR’s note via definition and other sections as to what is considered your “Common Area”.
DonG7 (Utah)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Janet, we are detached townhomes, not condos.
Common areas are defined by the plat map as being the 10' area between the homes.
Limited common areas are the 10' behind each home, and the first 8' in from the street.

Not sure if this is what you're thinking, but the physical cables buried in the common area between homes 20 years ago could possibly be considered an improvement at that time, but I'm questioning the monthly services delivered through them now.
NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
I don't understand how legally an HOA can be permitted to pay for an optional product or service within the interior walls of a unit. What's next? Paying for a new sofa for each unit owner every few years?

Why should the HOA force each owner to pay for an optional product or service they might not want or need?

In my opinion, any HOA that enters into such an agreement is violating their fiduciary duty, especially if they enter into a long-term contract (over 3 years) for an aging and nearing outdated medium.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Two year old thread.
NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/23/2020 7:25 PM
Two year old thread.

Still relevant today!
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
Nonsense.
NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/24/2020 6:26 AM
Nonsense.

This website should have a moderator.
DonG7 (Utah)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Thank you, NpB. It is indeed even more relevant now, since cable TV is even more of a dying industry, and even more outrageous for those who insist on forcing the rest of us to subsidize the cost of their cable TV by including it in "assessments."
But they are still doing it. What am I going to do, take them to court, and spend a lot on attorney's fees? Problem is - it was included by the developer from the beginning in 1995, when cable was the "only game in town."
NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonG7 on 05/26/2020 10:20 AM
Thank you, NpB. It is indeed even more relevant now, since cable TV is even more of a dying industry, and even more outrageous for those who insist on forcing the rest of us to subsidize the cost of their cable TV by including it in "assessments."
But they are still doing it. What am I going to do, take them to court, and spend a lot on attorney's fees? Problem is - it was included by the developer from the beginning in 1995, when cable was the "only game in town."

I would suggest requesting the membership list and communicate your position to the membership in hopes of electing a new Board who will terminate the contract.
DonG7 (Utah)
Posts: 11
Posted:
Thanks for your input. I certain have, and also sent out flyers with charts of the financial savings, along with a list of the FREE HD channels over the air with a cheap inside the attic antenna, and the various streaming Internet video options. I've compared it to using assessments to pay for weekly pizza delivery, etc.

The problem there is that the majority of owners are older, don't want change, and still want cable. That is the only litmus test for Board member election. Owners elect completely incompetent and known unethical people (who openly violate rules themselves) to the Board, just because they promise to keep cable TV. Owners recently approved a $25 increase in dues, rather than lose the cable TV subsidy from the rest of us. I think this voting attitude, in itself, is unethical.

I realize probably no one has an answer to that, but that's the dilemma. Probably what's needed is a turnover in age demographics of owners. Sorry to rant, but it ticks me off (as does socialism in general).
NpB (Arizona)
Posts: 605
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DonG7 on 05/26/2020 11:23 AM
Thanks for your input. I certain have, and also sent out flyers with charts of the financial savings, along with a list of the FREE HD channels over the air with a cheap inside the attic antenna, and the various streaming Internet video options. I've compared it to using assessments to pay for weekly pizza delivery, etc.

The problem there is that the majority of owners are older, don't want change, and still want cable. That is the only litmus test for Board member election. Owners elect completely incompetent and known unethical people (who openly violate rules themselves) to the Board, just because they promise to keep cable TV. Owners recently approved a $25 increase in dues, rather than lose the cable TV subsidy from the rest of us. I think this voting attitude, in itself, is unethical.

I realize probably no one has an answer to that, but that's the dilemma. Probably what's needed is a turnover in age demographics of owners. Sorry to rant, but it ticks me off (as does socialism in general).

I think age demographics are irrelevant. It's mainly about peoples' self-interest in cable tv and benefitting from a socialistic structure.

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