💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
This question was recently poised to an attorney on their "weekly" newsletter.

QUESTION: It is time for our annual election. The ballots are being returned to an independent election company. This company is providing a weekly list to the board of all members who have not yet voted. Board members plan to contact these individuals with a request to vote for certain candidates. Is this legal? Do the other candidates have a right to this list so they can do the same?

ANSWER: A strict reading of the Davis-Stirling Act indicates the list cannot be used by directors, candidates, management or anyone else to campaign for certain candidates.

Campaigning: By statute, association money cannot be used for campaign purposes (Civ. Code §5135(a)) Contacting members to urge them to vote for certain candidates qualifies as a campaign purpose (Civ. Code §4920(b)(1).) The association, in paying for the independent election company, has spent funds for the list of members who have not voted. Therefore, directors, candidates or any one else who uses the list to ask members to vote in a certain manner would be using association funds for campaign purposes. All members have a right to campaign for or against any candidate at their own expense.

Equal Access Required: If any member or candidate advocating a point of view related to an election is provided access to association media (such as newsletters, internet websites) the association must provide equal access to all candidates and members advocating a point of view. (Civ. Code §5105(a).) Associations must ensure access to any common area meeting space during a campaign at no cost to all candidates and members advocating a point of view. (Civ. Code §5105(a)(2).)

Early Ballot-Voter Count: The inspector of elections can provide an early ballot-voter count that includes the number of ballots that have been received. Providing a list of who voted is not one of the inspector’s duties (Civ. Code §5110(c)) but is within the inspector’s discretion.

RECOMMENDATION: Voter apathy is a common ailment in most associations and medical research has not yet developed a cure. Contacting members who haven’t voted and asking them to send in ballots may be helpful to meet the quorum of members requirement.

Using a "non-voter" list supplied by the inspector of elections to contact members is allowed, so long as it is not used to campaign for certain candidates. To ensure the list is being used just to encourage voter participation, contact should be made in writing (email or mail).

If non-voting members are to be contacted by phone, it is best to have management make the calls and use a script that does not endorse any particular candidates, but only asks the members to vote.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Having worked for the County of Los Angeles Elections, which is the largest voting jurisdiction in the United States, I happen to been involved in 4 elections from 2000-20002. In all those elections, it was required of all poll workers to post on an hourly basis, the roster of everyone who had voted and that list was posted at the entrance to each polling place. This was done to allow each campaign to have their workers collect names of those who had not voted in order to contact them to get out and vote for their particular candidate or ballot measure.

In my opinion, the RECOMMENDATION offered is pure BS.
JaneS13 (California)
Posts: 37
Posted:
Great information. Your post was inspiration for me to think about our upcoming elections and maybe asking why a homeowner does not return the ballot. Not to judge, but hear what they have to say.
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
And of course, these ballots are not opened. The double - blind envelope just tells where the ballot comes from, it does not reveal the contents of the vote - or even if people bothered to fill out the ballot correctly, or not or even left it blank.

This is just a return envelope count.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
We are going to have a vote to change our Covenants. Our lawyer informs us it can be a prepaid postcard ballot. Owners will have 45 days in which to send it in. The BOD can contact an owner and ask them to please submit the ballot and answer any questions they have about the change.

The Ballot will read that by submitting the ballot you approve of the BOD recommended change.

Easy Peasy to run an HOA is SC...........
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
How are elections in LA County relevant? The rules for HOAs are different, hence the reference to Davis-Sterling by the attorney.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BenA2 on 05/09/2018 2:06 PM
How are elections in LA County relevant? The rules for HOAs are different, hence the reference to Davis-Sterling by the attorney.


First, have you read all of the Davis-Stirling ACT of California Civil Code or California Corporation Code?

Second, it is Davis-Stirling, not Davis-Sterling

In regards to your slur of counties being relevant, "The association shall use as a model those procedures used by California counties for ensuring confidentiality of vote by mail ballots, including all of the following:

(1) The ballot itself is not signed by the voter, but is inserted into an envelope that is sealed. This envelope is inserted into a second envelope that is sealed. In the upper left hand corner of the second envelope, the voter shall sign the voter’s name, indicate the voter’s name, and indicate the address or separate interest identifier that entitles the voter to vote.

(2) The second envelope is addressed to the inspector or inspectors of elections, who will be tallying the votes. The envelope may be mailed or delivered by hand to a location specified by the inspector or inspectors of elections. The member may request a receipt for delivery.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/09/2018 2:48 PM
Posted By BenA2 on 05/09/2018 2:06 PM
How are elections in LA County relevant? The rules for HOAs are different, hence the reference to Davis-Sterling by the attorney.



First, have you read all of the Davis-Stirling ACT of California Civil Code or California Corporation Code?

Second, it is Davis-Stirling, not Davis-Sterling

In regards to your slur of counties being relevant, "The association shall use as a model those procedures used by California counties for ensuring confidentiality of vote by mail ballots, including all of the following:

(1) The ballot itself is not signed by the voter, but is inserted into an envelope that is sealed. This envelope is inserted into a second envelope that is sealed. In the upper left hand corner of the second envelope, the voter shall sign the voter’s name, indicate the voter’s name, and indicate the address or separate interest identifier that entitles the voter to vote.

(2) The second envelope is addressed to the inspector or inspectors of elections, who will be tallying the votes. The envelope may be mailed or delivered by hand to a location specified by the inspector or inspectors of elections. The member may request a receipt for delivery.

It was not meant as a slur and I'm sorry you took it that way.
I was clearly not giving an opinion on the Davis-Stirling Act or CA law in general and don’t claim to know either, I was just pointing out that the attorney was basing his opinion on the Act which applies to HOAs and not general elections.

You pointed out that Davis-Stirling requires associations to model procedures of California counties “for ensuring confidentiality of vote by mail ballots” but the question was not about confidentiality of votes.

The attorney’s opinion was that “a strict reading of the Davis-Stirling Act indicates the list cannot be used by directors, candidates, management or anyone else to campaign for certain candidates.” My question was, how are LA County elections relevant to that?

It was a question, not a challenge. I understand if you don’t have an answer.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/09/2018 10:24 AM
Having worked for the County of Los Angeles Elections, which is the largest voting jurisdiction in the United States, I happen to been involved in 4 elections from 2000-20002. In all those elections, it was required of all poll workers to post on an hourly basis, the roster of everyone who had voted and that list was posted at the entrance to each polling place. This was done to allow each campaign to have their workers collect names of those who had not voted in order to contact them to get out and vote for their particular candidate or ballot measure.

In my opinion, the RECOMMENDATION offered is pure BS.

Are county elections subject to Davis-Stirling Act? No? Didn't think so.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Ben

LA County has nothing to do with this, only that I worked for them back in 2000-2002 and served on a Federal Election commission after the 2000 Presidential Election. The point is elections and election procedures for HOA's are somewhat modeled after county election procedures in California. After-all, Counties throughout the United States run all the elections, not the states and not the federal government.

The attorney's opinion was based on a "strict" reading of the Davis Stirling Act. I didn't know there were different ways to read something like that. There is nothing in the Act that specifically says you can't share information. Matter of fact, if information is shared, it should be shared by all parties, equal access is spoken in election rules, "If any candidate or member advocating a point of view is provided access to association media (such as newsletters and internet websites) during a campaign, for purposes that are reasonably related to that election, the association must provide equal access to all candidates and members advocating a point of view on the issue. (Civ. Code §5105(a).)". Association media could mean voting lists, if available. As an inspector of elections, I share that information to ALL candidates, not just Board members.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 05/09/2018 4:03 PM
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/09/2018 10:24 AM
Having worked for the County of Los Angeles Elections, which is the largest voting jurisdiction in the United States, I happen to been involved in 4 elections from 2000-20002. In all those elections, it was required of all poll workers to post on an hourly basis, the roster of everyone who had voted and that list was posted at the entrance to each polling place. This was done to allow each campaign to have their workers collect names of those who had not voted in order to contact them to get out and vote for their particular candidate or ballot measure.

In my opinion, the RECOMMENDATION offered is pure BS.


Are county elections subject to Davis-Stirling Act? No? Didn't think so.

Didn't say there were did I?

Gonna call me a scumbag?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
The point of the posting was for people to see how they could get more people to vote, IF they happen to be a candidate running for a Board position. If you hadn't guessed, unless you are on the Board already, the cards are stacked against you. The larger the association the tougher it is to get elected, not that you wouldn't get more votes than the others, but that you wouldn't get enough people to even vote.

Case in point. In 2010, my old association were updating their Bylaws, one of the key points was to eliminate quorum altogether. especially for Board elections. We had 6 couples going door to door to solicit ballots. We hand delivered campaign mailers. We got updates from the inspectors of who had already voted and we targeted those that hadn't. Just like political candidates. We were an association of 317 homes and quorum was 159 and passage was 162 yes votes. Within 21 days, we got 240 ballots, all yes and the Bylaws were approved. We started writing the Bylaws in Feb 2010 and had the new ones signed by Aug 2010. I have hear on this forum where it took associations 3-4 years to get something passed. We helped an association of 1200 homes update their Bylaws within the same type of timeframe. 800 homes returned ballots, no proxies.

Sometimes you have to go the extra mile to get elected, it isn't good enough to just get on a ballot. Political candidates do the same thing. If not, they will lose.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • ✓ Ask follow-up questions
  • ✓ Share your experience
  • ✓ Get expert advice
  • ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →

⚡ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here