Still trying to figure out if I have a Volunteer or Mandatory HOA

I dug around even more as the HOA won't provide any paperwork about the past.

I found out in 1977 from the court house that a 6 page piece of paper was filed named "Restrictions - (NAME OF AREA) Subdivision.
it uses terms such as "set backs " "use restrictions" and it lines up 30 year model to need a 90% vote to change rules , and after 30 years only a 75% vote to change rules
NOT SURE WHAT TO CALL THAT at this point, but that don't sound volunteer to me. and does NOT have the word "volunteer" or "voluntary" in the whole 6 pages.

In 1978 2 separate amendments were registered with the county. Both have at the top "Amendments to Restrictions"
This sounds like hard rules as in rules that must "Run with the land" whatever that means.

So around 1991 their was paperwork to grossly neuter the rules to a truncated non-since. but non the less it names this area something slightly different than the older paperwork and includes a clause that that paper will "replace the existing restrictions as recorded , which is the prior 3 mentioned papers.

Our HOA that is registered with Sunbiz uses one name . "(neighborhood) Homeowners/Civic Association. Inc".

Is there a way possible that we have rules that are tied to the PROPERTY, and the HOA operates separately and that the HOA would be on a voluntary basis?

If so how is that even possible? Also the 2014 "member directory" that has about 5 pages of about the neighborhood, is the 1st piece of material I can find that indicates that the dues is on a volunteer basis, but not a single piece of paper . 1974, 1977 , 1978 , 1978 , 1991 or 2004 say volunteer and it even talks about liens against people who do not follow the outlined rules.

This is just very weird to me. How can you put a lien against a home, if its volunteer.

To me voluntary means , if you feel like it you can , and if you do not thats ok. Putting a lean and finding people are something totally different.

There has been 2 cases I pulled up from history and one remaining HOA board member that went to one of those in person and won the court case..

So Today I found the Neighborhood PLATS but that did not help me very much other than to notice that one of the street names has changed since then.

Anyone got any more tips for me , less of pyaing a lawyer to tell me how this is even possible?

ALSO one more question.
Their are SOME people that have lived here, that do NOT pay dues and have not for 5 to 8 years in a row, but if something comes up that they want to vote, they just pay dues for THAT YEAR and they vote. Shouldn't it be that if you want to "bring dues current" shouldn't you have to pay all the back years that you missed?

This is just 100% non since about how this outfit has let this HOA go down hill. I found a 1986 neighborhoood flyer that was 9 pages long , and it was professional wrote, talking about members of the HOA going to every county commissioner meeting & having steady contact with the fire dept & sheriffs to keep neighborhood safe and nice.

I swear society is just going on a downhill slide on a wax paper.

What you have is a complicated situation. It's possible that the HOA has settled these questions in the past so you may ask them (not that they necessarily know). I really don't see anyway of answering most of these questions for sure without talking to an attorney.

I can answer a couple of the questions:

"Runs with the land" means that the restrictions are attached to the property, not the owner. That means that if you sell it, the restrictions remain attached to the land and the new owner must abide by them.

You can have Covenants, Conditions, and Restrictions (CC&Rs) that are independent of the HOA. There is usually an HOA that enforces the CC&Rs but if the HOA is dissolved or never created, the CC&Rs are typically still in full force and other owners could enforce them in court. Every situation is different though.

What Geno said.

It sounds like your association is voluntary ...if an owner isn’t paying dues, then decides to vote all they have to do is pay dues for that cycle ...unfair, stupid governance process - but there are thousands all over Florida - mine is one.

The only permanent fix is to convert to a mandatory association ...but, this is nearly impossible since 100% have to AGREE to be governed by the HOA.

All you need is willing people to take their place if you have them removed...

10 signatures gets you a meeting. What does it take to remove the board members?

You don't know what it's going to take. You just know you want a "Quality HOA"... The laughter hurts!!!

Sorry but when I was President of my HOA, I was a Quality Manager. You have no idea... But it's fun watching the train wreck begin...

Oh boy... It's worst than I thought... No there is no such thing as "HOA training" to volunteer to be on the board. The ONLY requirement is to be a homeowner. To be able to vote for that person the members may need to be in "Good standing" and up to date on their dues. However, many HOA's don't have that as a requirement. Plus once elected to the board, it's up to that new board to elect the officers within.

You do realize suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. The same applies if you want to make a federal case of this. Guess who pays? You and your neighbors. There is no "HOA" jail for violating a HOA rule. The same real world laws applies to the humans in a HOA as anyone else. There is also insurance the HOA carries to protect those who VOLUNTEER to run to protect them personally.

You have not even seemed to understand how a HOA works before your going for blood. As someone who's been there, your biting way more off than you can chew. The SAME things you are saying about your board now? Is the SAME exact things that will be said about you. Especially when you make that 1 mistake. You will be then judged as you have judged others.

So step back from the bridge my friend and realize you have ALOT to learn before you get the results you desire. Which when you live in a HOA it is NOT your desires, it is ALL the members desires...

Am I missing something illegal here on this? As long as you put a stamp on whatever your mailing, you can put it in a mailbox. Which I believe you can put mail in any mailbox you want if you are mailing it. You just can't open up mail that isn't addressed to you.

I don't even see the relationship of this being an illegal act of the HOA. If anything, it's a personal issue of the President. The HOA is You and your neighbors entirely. Consider yourselves the "Borg".

Your mixing your apples and oranges and expecting lemonade.

The president told me the other day that he ran it by her again and she said she did'nt care she was still going to do it anyway.

That is the kinda people around here. They don't care about the rules they just feel they can do whatever they want.

Nope not here they don't I called the local post office and they said that I would have to call teh sheriff out on it. I did nto call the sheriff . But 2 days ago I was told by the "president" that he did indeed tell her to stop doing that its against the law, and she said "I don't care, I'm going to keep doing it anyway."

Well there you go. It's in her court now. what else is the President to do? This person doesn't care. So that is their problem.

I have a confession to make. I routinely drive 5 miles over the speed limit and have been doing it for 40 years. Does anyone care? Only those people who are driving 10 over the limit because I am slowing them down. Just because something is illegal does not necessarily mean it is a serious offense deserving of ridicule and exile.

I'm sure that mail carriers will throw away items without postage but postal inspectors investigate mail fraud, theft, and illegal substances shipped by mail, in addition to crimes that occur on postal service property. Putting HOA flyers in a mailbox is not going to be high on their list of problems.

You have to pick your battles. If you want other owners to support you, you need to concentrate on issues that matter to them.

About 75 violations are going unpunished as we speak.

Everything from farm animals in makeshift chicken coops, in a residential area.

Houses with 7 or 8 cars in it.

A house with someone living in a RV in the drive way.

Just tons of really really really easy to fix situations if any one member on the board had a backbone.

That is a problem if these things are specifically prohibited in your CC&Rs.

The president did do something. Person chose to ignore them. President is not the law or enforcer. It is the postal service.

So if all these violations are cleaned up then what? A HOA keeps a place attractive to potential buyers. That isthe purpose of restrictions and rules. It does it by being incorporated and funding itself by the members.

You have a personal issue with the president and others. If you did not, then you would be participating in your HOA no matter who was in office.

Well right now if a buyer BUYS a house here with the false assumption that their is a "functional hoa" then their wasting their money.

Also 4 houses are up for sale around here now, so since the LAZY hoa won't figure out a way to declutter all this mess, people driving around would see chicken coops , yards with toys and clutter strewn over the front lawn, gun fire at any time from 2 different houses at random.

Those are not desirous things to be seeing when your shopping around for a house. We had a nice quiet neighborhood for 35 years , but now the "get-a-long gang" is in charge and they don't want to get anyone mad. all the offenders are having a blast acting up.

If i have to wait til the main voting time in OCT I'll have this situation fixed .......too many people are very very mad. It's not just met on here venting. Their are people on each street that are about to blow a fuse.

I talk to A LOT of people around here, about 25% of the people that live here, so I know that my views are the majority. We just wnt the rules we have enforced - PERIOD.

Ok OK here is what I would like to do.

I would like to call code enforcement on all these people, but I live in a county where you have to give your OWN name and I feel that the HOA should be calling it in.

What would be a way to sweet talk the HOA to call in codes? I really don't mind calling them in under my name , but then I'm wondering what the HOA dues are good for since I have to do 100% of the work around here to make things nice.

I'm not saying that they are not wrong in not enforcing these issues, I don't know, but I wonder if there aren't reasons for not enforcing them. It is not always so simple. Is your HOA allowed to issue fines? If not, is their only recourse taking someone to court? If so, they should be very careful before doing so. No matter how right you might be, there is never a guarantee you will win in court.

We had what appeared to be someone living in an RV. The problem is that our CC&Rs say nothing about living in an RV. If the CC&Rs do say you can't live in it, how do you prove that they are actually living there?

We have a lot of people who think that chickens violate the "no livestock" clause in our CC&Rs. The problem is that the CC&Rs don't define livestock and the state code does not include chickens in the livestock definition, they are poultry. For years our board told people they could not have them but when someone got chickens they had to face the fact that they could not enforce it.

19.01 REMEDIES FOR VIOLATIONS
In the event of a violation, breach, default or noncompliance of any of these
restrictions by any person or concern claiming by, through or under the
successors, or by virtue of any judicial proceedings, the successors and assigns,
and the lot or tract owners, or any of them jointly or severally shall have the right
to proceed at law or in equity to compel a compliance with the terms hereof or to
prevent the violation or breach of any of them. Upon incurring attorney fees
and/or court costs due to said violation, breach, default or noncompliance of the
terms or conditions contained in these deed restriction then the prevailing party
shall be entitled to recover all reasonable attorneys fees and court costs, either
upon prevailing in a court of law or upon cure of any violation, breach, default or
noncompliance by the other party to settlement or compliance.

The current president said he was going to look into seeing if there was a way the title of the neighborhood could do reports, as I feel he don't even want his name tied to a code enforcement complaint.

Did not hear back from him on that, so I guess he might of forgot about getting around to researching that too.

You can call all you want. Otherwise your hiding behind the HOA. Which sounds like they ard not doing it because they represent all the owners including those in violation. So is everyone wants them report it? Nope.

The HOA can be more restrictive but still adheres to local and county law. So if your county allows chickens then nothing HOA can do much. The person shooting if legal to shoot in county just may be violating noise restrictions if after 10 pm.

So call the right authorities and stop blaming your HOA. They may be doing what they are alowed.

So, the only remedy is court. If you were on the board, you would have to decide if it is worth spending the association's money to take a violation to court. If you win, you would probably be reimbursed for attorney fees but no one can ever predict what will happen in court. Even if you do win, the defendant can appeal. I'm not saying the board should never take a violator to court, but they have to weigh the risks and consider that it could potentially cost the association a lot of money.

Yes the county laws trump the HOA. So do local, state, and federal laws. Restrictive does not mean not compliant. Just many HOAs do not modify their docs to reflect the laws because there is usually a clause stating they do not exceed local, county, state, or federal laws. Otherwise every law would have to be listed.

The you can have 4 chickens per acre is a "county ordinance"...........so I'm going to assume that there not gated communities around town that allow a nasty chicken coop to be put up cuz the county said so.

This is the county law talking about chickens

The maximum number of animals allowed shall be calculated on the
cumulative acreage. For example: Using the schedule above, 3 acres can
allow for a total animal combination of 2 horses (for 1 acre) and 2 cows
(for 2 acres),
or
another example for 3 acres can be a combination of 1
pig (for 1 acre), 1 goat (for 1 acre), and 10 chickens (for 1 acre). I
n the
event that an individual desires to exceed the animal schedule, as
provided above, a Conditional Use
approval must be obtained. Pigeons,
which are banded and kept for homing/racing purposes, may be permitted
in any residential district provided that t
he parcel contains not less than
9,600 square feet and the number of birds does not exceed 35 per 9,600
square feet.

does that mean our HOA rule about no poultry gets trumped?