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RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
This was posted in a newsletter by an attorney this morning. Thought it would be interesting reading.

BANNING TRUCKS

QUESTION: Our association bans pickups from parking overnight in driveways or in common areas. Parking in garages is permitted since the vehicles aren’t visible when they are in a garage. Our CC&Rs date back to the 70s and, as I understand it, things have changed in 40+ years. Can we still legally ban pickup trucks from parking in driveways and common areas overnight?

ANSWER: Yes, a lot has changed in the past 40 years--computers, cell phones, the internet, drones, recreational marijuana...and trucks. If you allow cars to park in driveways and common areas, you have to allow pickup trucks.

Case Law. This issue was addressed in a 1987 case, Bernardo Villas Management v. Black. The association had a CC&R provision that "No truck, camper, trailer, boat of any kind or other form of recreational vehicle may be parked in the development." Such restrictions were quite common and boards were obligated to enforce them.

A resident in Bernardo Villas bought a pickup which he used solely for personal transportation and parked in his carport. The board did its duty and sued the resident for violating the CC&Rs. Much to everyone's surprise, the trial court found the restriction unreasonable. Convinced the court got it wrong, the association appealed.

The court of appeal also sided with truck owners and agreed the restriction was unreasonable. The court noted that, "As times change, cultural perceptions--including society's acceptance of certain types of vehicles--also change. The pickup truck no longer has a pejorative connotation. One person's Bronco II is another's Rolls-Royce." The court added that beauty, even with cars, is in the eye of the beholder.

The next time you're on a freeway, look for pickup trucks. You will notice lots of them--Chevy Silverados, Dodge Rams, Toyota Tacomas, Ford F-150s, and scores of others of all shapes and sizes. The Ford F-150 has the distinction of being the most popular motor vehicle of all time. It has been the best-selling vehicle in the United States for over 30 years.

Pickups used as work trucks with signage, racks and tools can still be banned. Pickups used strictly for personal transportation cannot.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Richard,

Since case law was provided, I think the final sentences says it all:

Pickups used as work trucks with signage, racks and tools can still be banned.
Pickups used strictly for personal transportation cannot.


Thanks for providing.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I read this too, and am glad Richard posted it as it seems this topic is one of the most frequent on this forum.

Is it correct to say that case law, even CA case law can be referred to in other states?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Case law within the State sets precedent.
Case law outside of the State is seen more of a recommendation.

Still, each court can make their own decisions.
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 04/29/2018 10:50 AM
I read this too, and am glad Richard posted it as it seems this topic is one of the most frequent on this forum.

Which is interesting to me, as I'd never even heard of this being an issue until I came to this forum. Work trucks, yes, but not pickups merely used as personal vehicles. I can see four of them in neighbors' driveways from my window as I'm typing this. It must be a regional thing, because it would never fly here in Minnesota; way too many people use them as everyday vehicles, even in very affluent areas.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Many Boards actually utilize common sense.
The Boards that don't utilize common sense are the ones we typically hear about and, in reality, they are a small percentage of the overall number of HOA/COAs.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Big honking pickup trucks parked in driveways down the street for a thousand feet certainly detract from the ambiance of my community, blocking the otherwise nice view.

"The pickup truck no longer has a pejorative connotation." That's not true. Thanks for legislating "correct thinking" and social justice from the bench there, California judges. They obviously haven't lived in my neck of the woods. Beneath contempt.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
The reason for the post was that this has come in recently, interpretation of the CCRs/Rules. Some CCRs with state no pickups, some say no trucks and some will say no commercial vehicles.

Quite frankly, I don't have a problem with a owner who has a truck and is a plumber or contractor or electrician, whatever the case may be. Over the years, our job market has changed, people that used to be bankers are now plumbers and they may need their truck will on call, which, if self employed, is all the time.

As I have managed a number of properties many with different configurations and parking problems. I managed a condo property in L.A. of 120 units and 65 parking spaces. Each unit had a two car garage, half with side by side parking and half stacked parking. Half the community was Hispanic and many had pickup or construction/work trucks. Parking, because of the limited outside parking and the actual space was a problem and rules had to be created to handle these problems. The rules had to be fair and reasonable.

I received a call from a friend of mine in the association I once belonged to who also happens to be a Board member. The association is in the early stages of creating new parking rules and they want to exclude any pickup over 25 1/2 feet long, think it would exclude the Board member in question. In his case he has a Ford F250 which is 266 inches long. The community is 317 single family detached homes with private streets and pretty of parking, so the run is being implemented to be discriminatory.

Ford just announced that they will only be selling two cars, the Mustang and Fusion Active. Everything else is Trucks, SUVs and etc. Garages are not built for larger cars. You can't park two large vehicles in them.

I think our society is coming down to, you should have all the guns you can stuff in your house to protect yourself, but you can't have a pickup.
GeorgeS21 (Florida)
Posts: 3,808
Posted:
People that used to be bankers are now plumbers?

Really?

Or is this a veiled version of the the guy who said he used to be a doctor, before he figured out plumbers make more money?
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GeorgeS21 on 05/01/2018 6:48 AM
People that used to be bankers are now plumbers?

Really?

Or is this a veiled version of the the guy who said he used to be a doctor, before he figured out plumbers make more money?

Our economy has changed over the last 50 years. Unfortunately some documents haven't keep pace and some people look at things with blinders on.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
What got my attention is that a court ignored the covenant's verbatim reading and decided what was reasonable, without the presence of more sweeping statutory authority. E.g. nationwide, even if CC&Rs say a HOA is restricted to caucasians or gentiles, because of federal and state law, these CC&Rs, that discriminate on the basis of race or religion, would be struck instantly as unlawful.

Bernardo Villas Management v. Black (a) dates all the way back to 1987; (b) yet has been cited in just a few other cases subsequently, and only in California; and (c) relies on California Civil Code 1354, which states in part.

1354. (a) The covenants and restrictions in the declaration shall be enforceable equitable servitudes, unless unreasonable...

The full opinion is at https://law.justia.com/cases/california/court-of-appeal/3d/190/153.html .

I could be wrong, but at present, I have some doubts about how widely applicable this precedent, and the legal concept, is outside California. Courts want HOAs and their members to follow their governing documents. The governing documents are a contract. The contract is all that keeps HOAs and members on the same page. California's statute, pertaining to reasonable covenants, and the Bernardo case perhaps empowers Californians. I am not sure it has much applicability outside California.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
AugustinD

What is a truck and should ALL be banned if so stated in one's CCRs?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Hi Richard, I am not sure I understand your question. The 1987 California decision seems fine to me. What I wonder is whether there are other, Declarant-written, unambiguous covenants that were stricken because a court said the covenant was unreasonable (again, setting aside covenants that unlawfully discriminate on the basis of race, religion, et cetera). It seems to be rare. For example:

Nahrstedt v. Lakeside Village Condominium Assn, California, 1994 talks about the "reasonable standard" and the importance of respecting CC&Rs. A covenant prohibited cats at a condominium. The trial court said unreasonable and struck the covenant. The appeals court reversed. See https://law.justia.com/cases/california/supreme-court/4th/8/361.html.

Aragon v. Brown, New Mexico, 2003 talks about the "reasonable" standard. A covenant prohibited manufactured homes. The trial court said "unreasonable" and struck the covenant. The appeals court reversed. See https://law.justia.com/cases/new-mexico/court-of-appeals/2003/f580-21241-21867.html.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Richard, I think I understand your question now. I think in some states, what a truck is would be considered unambiguous, and a court might very well rule that a covenant restricting trucks outright could stay in effect. Some tony neighborhoods might be found reasonable in having a covenant that was a tad more specific, saying no pickup trucks no way no how.

The others here are treating restrictions on, for example, trucks with signs advertising a business as well as I could.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
The OP's CCRs stated no trucks. Question would be why can't there be any trucks and is the rules fair and reasonable. Circumstances do change over times and documents may have to be interpreted differently. For instance, many CCRs will state no businesses out of homes. Well, in the 70's, prior to technology, a business out of a home probably would look a lot different than today. One in the 70's could be a distribution center with comings and going all day long. Today, I could have a consulting business with a business license operating as my main office. I might have a couple of clients over during the week but do much of my consulting in their office, but my HOA address would show as the business address.

the majority of CCRs are boilerplate documents and that very same document could be found in multiple location just under different HOA names. I have had to amend two that were erroneously put into place by an attorney and developer. They were for attached condos and the developments were detached PUDs. The attorney refused to fix and the developers had gone out of business.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 04/30/2018 11:38 AM

I think our society is coming down to, you should have all the guns you can stuff in your house to protect yourself, but you can't have a pickup.


LOL ... those guns are protected by our United States Constitution. But I also agree that pickup is a certain right.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/01/2018 12:45 PM
The OP's CCRs stated no trucks. Question would be why can't there be any trucks and is the rules fair and reasonable. Circumstances do change over times and documents may have to be interpreted differently. For instance, many CCRs will state no businesses out of homes. Well, in the 70's, prior to technology, a business out of a home probably would look a lot different than today. One in the 70's could be a distribution center with comings and going all day long. Today, I could have a consulting business with a business license operating as my main office. I might have a couple of clients over during the week but do much of my consulting in their office, but my HOA address would show as the business address.

the majority of CCRs are boilerplate documents and that very same document could be found in multiple location just under different HOA names. I have had to amend two that were erroneously put into place by an attorney and developer. They were for attached condos and the developments were detached PUDs. The attorney refused to fix and the developers had gone out of business.


Good points and which is why some HOA’s who dig in will loose some court cases ... ALSO is a reason why states keep changing and updating their Laws to take care of items which they should not potentially be involved ... WHY ... because of HOA’s who will dig in instead of being “reasonable” and forcing the States to take actions. PLEASE ... let's all start using “Common Sense”. Potentially put yourself in the position of any other homeowner regarding an issue ... and ask what would I expect or how would I want to be treated under this circumstance. Then consider why our Country was founded along with what is contained in our Constitution. Potentially we now have too many who are willing to step all over other people’s private property rights ... this is what the Courts look at ...
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
This clause in our Docs seems to work very well for us in our common area private streets, open spaces and driveways.

Commercial Vehicles. Parking of commercial vehicles in open view within the community is not allowed. A commercial vehicle is defined as any vehicle that (i) bears any visible commercial advertising signs, names logos, dealer tags, letterings or initials (not including bumper stickers or similar sized stickers); or (ii) is used, or intended for use, as a car for hire or a work vehicle, which may be evidenced by open carriage of pipes, lumber or other work-related construction, equipment, machinery, materials or ladders, including but not limited to ladder racks, pipe racks, tools or other equipment; or (iii) vehicles designed or intended for use as commercial buses, cargo vans, express vans, delivery vans, flatbeds or trucks used for any other purpose other than for private/consumer use. Advertising is defined to include, but not be limited to the display of a company name and/or product name and telephone number and/or email address.

Parking is so limited in our area, even the County passed a law that applies to any state maintained public street in an area that is zoned residential. The county rule says that you cannot park ANY vehicle that is over 21ft long, over 7 ft wide or 8 ft high.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 05/03/2018 6:41 AM
This clause in our Docs seems to work very well for us in our common area private streets, open spaces and driveways.

Commercial Vehicles. Parking of commercial vehicles in open view within the community is not allowed. A commercial vehicle is defined as any vehicle that (i) bears any visible commercial advertising signs, names logos, dealer tags, letterings or initials (not including bumper stickers or similar sized stickers); or (ii) is used, or intended for use, as a car for hire or a work vehicle, which may be evidenced by open carriage of pipes, lumber or other work-related construction, equipment, machinery, materials or ladders, including but not limited to ladder racks, pipe racks, tools or other equipment; or (iii) vehicles designed or intended for use as commercial buses, cargo vans, express vans, delivery vans, flatbeds or trucks used for any other purpose other than for private/consumer use. Advertising is defined to include, but not be limited to the display of a company name and/or product name and telephone number and/or email address.

Parking is so limited in our area, even the County passed a law that applies to any state maintained public street in an area that is zoned residential. The county rule says that you cannot park ANY vehicle that is over 21ft long, over 7 ft wide or 8 ft high.

IMO, the commercial vehicle clause is discriminatory for so many reason. If I worked for State Farm as a Claims Adjuster, my company car, which I take home, has a State Farm logo on it.

Not know what state you are from but even the County rule might poise a problem. For instance an Ford F250 with a bed of 6.75 ft would pass, but one with a 8 ft bed (which would pull a 5th wheeler) would not.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
One thing the attorney wrote that I disagree with is that "boards were obligated to enforce them." If the board believes that a restriction is unreasonable, they should not enforce it, or at least consult an attorney first.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
My last HOA banned overnight parking of commercial vehicles. We had issues. Two identical mini-vans. One with no signage, one with Airport Limo Service signage. We ruled the limo was commercial.

A Ford Explorer with the name of a Real Estate Company on the back window. We ruled it commercial.

We had to rule on a F450 that had a 5th wheel hook-up in the bed. We ruled not commercial.

SC has another quirk. Commercial Plates for a vehicle to be able to park in loading and unloading zones. Like a Corvette having Commercial Plates. We had to rule on that one as not being Commercial.

We had someone complain that the cruiser of a State Police Officer was commercial as it had signage. We ruled an exception for public safety vehicles. That did open up us up to ambulances but we never had to address it.

Each home in the HOA did have a 2 or 3 car garage and one could park anything in there they wanted to park so we could be tough on the rules for outside, overnight parking. Overnight street parking was not allowed but another issue.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 05/03/2018 2:56 PM
My last HOA banned overnight parking of commercial vehicles. We had issues. Two identical mini-vans. One with no signage, one with Airport Limo Service signage. We ruled the limo was commercial.

A Ford Explorer with the name of a Real Estate Company on the back window. We ruled it commercial.

We had to rule on a F450 that had a 5th wheel hook-up in the bed. We ruled not commercial.

SC has another quirk. Commercial Plates for a vehicle to be able to park in loading and unloading zones. Like a Corvette having Commercial Plates. We had to rule on that one as not being Commercial.

We had someone complain that the cruiser of a State Police Officer was commercial as it had signage. We ruled an exception for public safety vehicles. That did open up us up to ambulances but we never had to address it.

Each home in the HOA did have a 2 or 3 car garage and one could park anything in there they wanted to park so we could be tough on the rules for outside, overnight parking. Overnight street parking was not allowed but another issue.

It's one of the reasons why I will never live in another HOA.
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Richard - RE: State Farm vehicle - That's used for commercial pursuits and the signage deems that a commercial vehicle. We would not allow this. Most folks would have a personal vehicle in addition to the State Farm vehicle which just compounds the problem of the lack of availability of parking. That just would not fly in our community.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 05/03/2018 10:19 AM

IMO, the commercial vehicle clause is discriminatory for so many reason. If I worked for State Farm as a Claims Adjuster, my company car, which I take home, has a State Farm logo on it.

Not know what state you are from but even the County rule might poise a problem. For instance an Ford F250 with a bed of 6.75 ft would pass, but one with a 8 ft bed (which would pull a 5th wheeler) would not.

I agree. What is the rationale for banning vehicles simply because they have business logo?
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeS1 on 05/04/2018 6:01 AM
Richard - RE: State Farm vehicle - That's used for commercial pursuits and the signage deems that a commercial vehicle. We would not allow this. Most folks would have a personal vehicle in addition to the State Farm vehicle which just compounds the problem of the lack of availability of parking. That just would not fly in our community.

I understand the multiple vehicle issue but most HOAs can control the number of vehicles owners park in common parking areas (they should not be concerned with public streets). What if the person is a business owner and the car with a logo is also their personal vehicle? Would that also not fly?
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
what do you mean by logo? If there is a company sign on the vehicle, It's commercial. Our community is a mixed of garage and non-garage home with only .3 open spaces per home available. That's standard zoning in this very large and affluent county in our area. It's been like that for many years and it's still that way today for new homes. I would say that the developers have a little influence with our zoning division it seems.

RE: The county zoning rule on oversized vehicles on State maintained roads - Before the county restricted vehicle size to no more than 21x7x8, we also had a restricted parking district because right after the community was built, they parked large Dump trucks, excavators on trailers, boats on trailer, box trailers, cranes, Food Trucks, and the one public street in our community was covered with these. Not only was it unsightly and dangerous because it changed the site distance (which affected your ability to see a child walk across the street, so DOT also restricted parking near intersections to improve the sight distance. After the county passed the size limitation which also precludes boats and any type of trailers, it looks nicer, it's safer and there is some parking available to residents. You can still park commercial vehicles in this area, but they just cannot exceed the size restriction. We'll note that that at one time that a lot of the large vehicles and construction equipment was being parked there from folks outside our community that did not have room to park their vehicles in their own community.

Also - only in America, do we park our $60,000 vehicles in the open and keep our junk stored in the garage. So that's an issue as well. That's a problem also.

Yes - HOA's have their place in this world, but our next house will not be in an HOA - Maybe a large parcel in Texas and a 4 or 3 garage.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mike,

I bought in TN. It has an HOA but zero amenities.
Assessment: $50 a year (per the covenants).

1/2 to 2/3 acre lots with three or four car garages (oversized).
Additionally, long driveways. I could easily park 10 cars on the property (between the garages and driveway) with plenty of room to walk around the vehicles and open doors.
The builder did it right.

Simply take what you learned from living in your HOA and verify everything prior to purchase (I had a contingency on reviewing the governing documents written into the contract).
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
This was on the front page of the News section of HOATalk. in regards to commercial vehicles. http://communityassociations.net/homeowner-fighting-driveway/

"They defined to me at the board meeting a commercial vehicle as any vehicle used for work purposes or income based purposes,"
MikeS1
Posts: 521
Posted:
Tim - ..long time - You have my email - We're looking at TN as well.
Shoot me an email. Thanks.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Mike - I sent an email to your yahoo account

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