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ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
My condominium's infrastructure is about 25 years old. The condo is responsible for the water supply piping in the walls and buried underground. In the walls it is mostly copper piping, probably per code. Underground it is mostly PVC. In my experience, such piping lasts 50+ years, apart from the random break here and there. The condo has had the random break here and there. The breaks are not increasing in frequency and are rare. The water is not acidic. The Reserve Studies done to date have never included replacement of the water supply piping. Now the board is saying both the PVC and copper pipes are at the end of life, due to a recent failure. The Board is arguing for a substantial assessment increase to pay for replacement over several years. I have recommended consulting an outside expert and the Reserve Study company. If you are a condominium member, or otherwise experienced with the aging of copper and PVC pipe, can you please share whether your most recent Reserve Study considered water supply pipe replacement and any other thoughts?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
This is over several years. It's not like it's going to be tomorrow. Although if you all do have a big break in next 2 years would your HOA be able to afford it? That is what the reserves are for. That one day when a major component will need replacing. It's not like your going to know an exact timeline when that is going to happen. Best to have as much money saved up when at all possible to be available at need.

Think about it. What if the end of life is 5 years from now? Your HOA did not take the steps now to save up. How would you all pay for it then? A special assessment? Which would be much more money than just a few extra bucks today.

Former HOA President
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In the case of piping Elle, I'd rely only on the recommendations of your reserves analyst, NOT your board or online sources. Make sure the person is certified. S/he'll know what a typical estimate of lifespan is for those kinds of piping in your region.

Our 17-y.o. 25-story twin towers high rise has over 100 components as recommended by our analyst and he hasn't included any piping tho' he's put many other items in our study in the last few years. Neighboring condos, many around our age, don't include it either. Reserve studies should only include components that won't last as the estimated life of the building--usually estimated at 30-40 years. (Items that'll last less than a year or under a certain $ amount shouldn't be included either.)

That's why you won't see replacement life or $ estimates for exterior concrete walls, concrete stairs, granite cladding, etc., on studies

You can imagine how many lineal feet we have of copper piping (all 200+ condos have at least two baths). We had 2-3 pinhole leaks a year. We have a plumbing repair line item in our operations budget. About a year ago we purchased a system & monthly service to coat the insides of the copper piping and we've had no leaks since.
ElleN (Idaho)
Posts: 4,420
Posted:
Hi Melissa, I feel I understand the principles behind reserve funding. What had me wondering was why the prior Reserve Studies never included the water pipe. KerryL1's explanation for the latter is consistent with what I am finding on the net.

TimB4, setting aside money for the random break makes sense and is what I am going to recommend, as a Member. Thanks for the links. They are backing up what I am finding about the expected life.

KerryL1, thanks for sharing your experience. It is super helpful. I read other condominiums' Reserve Studies, that my HOA's reserve study company had also completed. The studies consistently say what you do: When the expected life is super long, like more than 30+ years, the component is often ignored. In one of their studies they did recommend getting input from a local professional for the water pipes, just as you did, at some point.

Do you know what the cost for the coating of the copper pipe was? Is it a per foot charge? I have not heard of condo units where I live experiencing pinhole leaks. Still, the Board is talking about coating the insides of the copper pipe.

Here's a site that reinforces Kerry's statements: http://mccafferyreserveconsulting.com/should-plumbing-and-pipes-be-included-in-a-reserve-study/

If my HOA's Board insists on raising the assessment for this particular reserve component, I won't argue, because there are two other reserve components, of a similar cost (roofs and roads) that I think they are neglecting.

I know there is no exactness to all this. The point is to stay financially healthy and not have to suddenly impose a large, one-time special assessment.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Well, Elle, since we have so many mechanical/plumbing items, it's hard for me to remember the original amount to install. We pay $500 a month. As I recall, the product is distributed monthly through our domestic water systems, which is on the towers' roofs. I think it's just poured in. Many high rises in our 'hood use this system, especially those over 20 y.o. I just can't recall the installation of the system's cost.

Don't think it's related to a our overall sq. ft. of lineal feet of copper piping.

You make a good point by agreeing the Board start reserving for your PVC since you think your reserves are underfunded. I do think you still want an expert's opinion.

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