Ofifcers only meeting vs descriptioin of power for artchitech.

I have a question.
Our HOA has 6 officers , a president , security, vice president, treasurer, and 3 members for the architect board.

They had a meeting last time saying only officers could talk. But the architects talked.

Does that mean a Architect is a officer too? I thought "officers meeting" only meant President , VP and secretary?

Also our HOA does not have any written paperwork about the "duties" of officers or block captains.

Shouldn't written descriptions of their roles and duties be outlined in something? if so what?

I'm also getting conflicting answers. Some say the architect has all the powers of a officer with more powers on top of that to control codes about buildings , fences etc.
the other 1/2 think architects only have power to approve building plans , structures and the like.

How is one to get to the bottom of this if the HOA don't even seem to know?

great points and im going to make sure all of that is bought up at next meeting!

Where would one even find a "Article of Incorporation"?

Noah wrote: "They lump board members and officers on the same list as blanketed "board members" it is just a mess ...."

I think, Noah, that our HOA is like most. We have 4 officers, Pres., VP, Treas. & Sec'y. They ALL are directors too. They were elected by the Owners to be directors. We also have three additional directors who also were elected by the Owners.

Now, right after an election, the "new" Board meets and elects officers USUALLY from among themselves.

Some HOA's bylaws say that some officers aren't required to be directors except, perhaps, for the President. So, for instance, without a property manager, a director usually is the secretary and writes meeting minutes. BUT, sometimes, a board will have no one who will do it, BUT an owner volunteers to be secretary and the Board votes for her/him to be that officer.

If your HOA isn't a corporation, you might not have Bylaws OR Articles of INCORPORATION.

form what you're writing, you have 3 directors (Board members) who are on the ARC. Is that right? There is no such thing as an "Architectural Committee Board."

If anyone has any free time to spare I could email the 1978 paperwork with the newest version to see if anyone can make heads or tails of it, it's been the single biggest problem with this HOA. After driving the hard questions to all who have been involved with teh HOA it boils down to winging it.......and me and a few other people are trying to restore the quality & make it effective and the more questions I ask the bigger the problems seem to be.

Yea that sounds good. We have to have a lawyer write up the new rules so they might as well be the ones explaining some of this stuff to boot. I just never feel like right unless i got all the facts. But on a upside I found out today that I might be on the board as soon as next week so we will see how that goes.

Right here at Sunbiz.org, the official website of Florida's Division of Corporations.

I did that last night. I used the county clerk to print out all the documents and the 2004 papers have a clause in their that they replace all previous rules.

I got that and the rest printed out & having a HOA board where 4 out of the 9 are brand new people that have never served on a board, of which 2 are officers does not make for a good setup.

Example: 1st meeting with new 'appointed president' , his first question was "Do we or don't we want to enforce the rules". For a president of a HOA to ask that question at all cries out a total misunderstanding of what a HOA board is all about.

When he was told in Dec that chickens and chicken coops were against the rules, he said "well the guy that owns them is a good man, and he helps out around here."

When he was told about chickens at next meeting he said "well maybe we grandfather them in , despite the rule being from 1978 up to and including all revisions up til 2004 which is the most recent updated version. He says he would like them to "let them live out until the chickens die naturally, then tell them they cant have any more.

When I say I know what a HOA is and all about, and if that example does not sound like a clear understating , then I wouldn't be able to give a better example.

Rules say 2 maximum pets total for typical inside house pets i.e. cats , dogs....no livestock no poultry........that is about as black and white as you can have it.

Noah

To make it easier for others to understand you. There are BOD Members and there are BOD/Association Officers who the BOD elects from among its member. Thus all Officers are Members of the BOD but not all BOD Members are Officers. Depending on the size of the BOD, typical Officers are President, Vice President, Treasurer, Secretary. We combine the positions of VP and Treasurer so we have 3 Officers. The non-Officer Member(s) of the BOD are often called Member At Large.

Officers can enter into contracts on behalf of the association but they will require permission of the BOD. In our association the Pres, and VP sign all contracts.

Committees are typically appointed by and serve at the will of the BOD though this can vary. A committee may elect Officers but they are not Officers of the BOD nor Association.

I pulled their sunbiz info, and even though they call the directors "officers"
by each name it has

John doe (P) for president
Jon doe II (V)
Fred Smith (S)
Jon doe (T)

Joe Smith (D)

so im going to tell them tonight to quit calling directors "officers" as it just causes confusion for people around here.

While you do not like it, appointing people to fill BOD vacancies is practiced by and in the Bylaws of the majority of associations.

An election each time to fill a vacancy is time consuming, costly, and not needed.

Sorry - it is not why you pay dues. You pay dues to support the needs of the community and HOA.

Sounds like you need to get it in your head that you follow rules and those rules already exist.

If you want to change the rules, do it.

I follow the rules, but about 40 or 50 houses do not and nobody' on the board of directors does anything about it.

On the upside the meeting tonight was ironing out some of those issues, but making them enforce a single thing anytime soon was not one of them, they want to wait for a community vote to see if they want to change the language before enforcing anything and that only got more people mad.

The Terminology in our HOA rules talks about liens and what to do when someone is in violation.

The common theme I've been trying to get everyone from county commissioners, congressman & represent ivies is that the corruptness people that have taken over not by vote but appointed powers REFUSE TO ENFORCE ANY RULES PERIOD.........we have people that have chickens, we have houses that are over the maximum of 2 pets, their are houses that have 8 cars around them ......... every meeting theses get brought up, every meeting the appointed president says "well we put it in the newsletter and if that don't make people motivated to do the right thing there is NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT".

The 1974 , 1978 , 1992 bylaws never says the word voluntary , and describes at length on when to take people to court, how to handle liens.

I guess I'll just have to keep calling local news stations until they give these "hoa authorities" the much needed unwanted attention they deserve as their are no less than 20 families around here that are trying everything under the sunt o get these people to comply with thir own written rules.

What i meant by disbarred is kicked off the board for being in the way.

I have director members telling me on the phone and in private they wish the HOA would DO work and enforce rules, but at the meeting they dont SAY A WORD, they dont speak up when bad decides are being suggested....so its a case of everyone a chicken, there are 10 families in teh community that do have a spine but none of them are on teh board, and just like the vacancy for the Architect committee, there delaying filling the vacancy, but the HOA did not waste anytime when those new 4 people get on the board to fill vacancies....its just corruption and it's going to stop one way or another.

I have read online that you need 5% of paid dues members to sign a petition, well that is only 10 signatures as this area only has 190 holmes. So I think that will be on my list to do today, as were just sick of it.

I think you do not comprehend the situation.

The HOA Membership will elect at BOD (Board of Directors) at each of your Annual Meetings.

Those BOD then between themselves will appoint your HOA Officers as noted generally in your Bylaws. My HOA has the BOD operating in the following positions of President, Vice President, Secretary, Treasurer.

Therefore, calling the Directors in some instances Officers would be correct.

I'll post both the original founders 1978 rules then below the current 2004 rules, and to me they clearly indicate no chickens.

1978
4.05 Except for no more than 2 dogs or 2 cats, and other household pets no animals, livestock or poultry of any kind shall be raised, bred o kept on any lot.

2004 rules that are to update and replace all previous rules reads exactly.

8.01 No pets shall be maintained or kept on any portion of the property, including within any dwelling unit, other than common household pets such as cats, dogs , goldfish , topical fish and the link, and such birds as canaries and parakeets. No animals, including any of the above , may be kept, bred or maintained for any commercial use upon the property or within a building or structure. In any event, no more than two (2) pets shall be maintained within the boundaries of any lot.

In 1986 I have a community flier that talks about the ACC board denying a aviary for someones back yard. If they were denying someone a backyard bird cage, that clearly indicates this area has and had no desire for birds in your back yard of any kind.

Also when the people that have chickens were looking to buy a house, they said they agreeded with all the rules of which they read the 8.01 which is the standing rule clearly talking about HOUSEHOLD pets , of which the HOA president said "well we don't allow chickens but I'll talk to your neighbor to see if they dont mind, that ONE neighbor said they did not mind so the president told them verbally "what the heck why not your neighbor dont mind".
"

This was a verbal non-since said to those folks , there was no board meeting, the board did not make a vote for a special exception. The community did not made a clause or amendment for a 1 off allowance. One random neighbor's "Say so" should not override the deed restrictions that are registered at the courthouse. If anything there should have been a board meeting and a community vote and if everyone has chicken fever they should rewrite the rules, not improvise on the spot.

This is also why people were wanting to eject that president, but the problem is we have the new appointed president who is very very slow at getting anything together.

I believe the 2004 rules would hold up in court as CHICKENS are not household pets.

I called the County clerk and asked them what the restrictions for my personal property, the told me to go to their website and search for Deed Restrictions. Every neighborhood in the county came up. I clicked or neighborhood, she said ok those are your deed restrictions and if anyone is breaking them and they match county code, you can call code enforcement. I asked them what about the non-county rules, she said your HOA would have to enforce it.

The paperwork I have are listed as "Affidavits" and "Restrictions" on the clerks website. To me that sounds like CCRs as they talk about restrictions.

I don't know what a article is .

Well I'll go back to courthouse next week, I just really love that a non-hoa member has to be the one to get down to all the facts.

More non-since this week.

This week the treasurer mailed out letters to speciicif people accusing them of not paying their dues. Both people called me asking what the heck is wrong with them. Both parties did indeed pay and months ago. They both had to go down their and show them their online banking as proof their checks cleared.

I asked for the 3 15 2018 meeting notes from the secretary and the part about "a community meeting coming up very soon so the home owners can talk" was not in it at all.
The appointed president says he does not even remember saying it at all.

Their is NOTHING they can do right. Also the secretary said that it was the neighborhood LEGAL OBLIGATION to pay dues at the meeting and that is untrue as even the envelopes that go out say "voluntary dues" .

So you have a secretary that can't take complete notes, a treasurer that can't keep track of payments, and a president that cannot remember anything.

Just wanted to prove that this HOA is 100% incompetent.

If you read the statute closely, you will see that the 14 day notice is only required for certain meetings, such as when they are raising assessments. For regular meetings the statute says that the bylaws should say what notice is required and if they don't, the statute specifies how notice is given and there are several alternatives. None require 14 days notice for a regular meeting.

I really think you should sit down with someone who has a little more experience and understands your CC&Rs, bylaws, and state law. It may be that someone on the board knows more than you are giving credit for. If not, maybe you can find another homeowner who has a good understanding.

Wow... I want a quality HOA and I have the skills to help out the HOA... I just refuse to use them... How is this helpful? Plus your not even willing to be on the board. You want others to do it for you. Your NOT the puppet master here. Sounds like that is EXACTLY what you want to be. It's exactly what you are not.

Your not a team player. Your not participating or educating yourself the proper way. You have expectations that will never be met. Once you open yourself up to learning and volunteering yourself to do a duty, then you may see what is real. Right now you see just fantasy.

Noah - either join your Board to help fix the HOA - or, move on.

You are just whining at this point.

I also just realized something.

Last Sept at a private non-published officers meeting, the president vacated his position and on the spot the new appointed preseitn took over.

state law of FL 617 says that anyone appointed will hold spot til next voting period.

The voting period was in Oct. which the "appointed president" did not give anyone a option to vote for him, he thinks he will serve for 2 years.

Is this grounds to call for a recount or flag something as this was not conducted correctly? If his position was suppose to be up to having a election. He's telling people that EVEN this Oct that is coming he will remain in charge and it wont be til 2019 til anyone can vote on him.......

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0600-0699/0617/0617.html

617.0809 Board vacancy.—
(1) Except as provided in s. 617.0808(1)(f), any vacancy occurring on the board of directors may be filled by the affirmative vote of the majority of the remaining directors, even though the remaining directors constitute less than a quorum, or by the sole remaining director or, if the vacancy is not so filled or if no director remains, by the members or, on the application of any person, by the circuit court of the county where the registered office of the corporation is located.
(2) Whenever a vacancy occurs with respect to a director elected by a class, chapter, unit, or group, the vacancy may be filled only by members of that class, chapter, unit, or group, or by a majority of the directors then in office elected by such class, chapter, unit, or group.
(3) The term of a director elected or appointed to fill a vacancy expires AT THE END OF NEXT ANNUAL MEETING at which directors are elected. Any directorship to be filled by reason of an increase in the number of directors may be filled by the board of directors, but only for a term of office continuing until the next election of directors by the members or, if the corporation has no members or no members having the right to vote thereon, for such term of office as is provided in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws.
(4) A vacancy that will occur at a specific later date, by reason of a resignation effective at a later date under s. 617.0807 or otherwise, may be filled before the vacancy occurs. However, the new director may not take office until the vacancy occurs.

On Sept 2017 a meeting which was not told to anyone to give the required 48 hours notice took place, the active president vacated his position, and appointed a new president.

By FL law it says anyone that is appointed holds that spot until next regular scheduled voting period.

Oct 2017 is the yearly regularly voting period. some positions were voted on but not the president.

Not that there seems to be any punishments for breaking FL statutes it seems....but that clearly is against the statute.

Even worse the current president says he will not be up for a vote til OCT 2019, which would of made him being appointed on Sept 17.....as if he had a full 2 years without anyone having any choice in the matter.

I'm 100% sure I'm right in reading the statute, I just don't know the best way to resolve this issue. I'd love to call the most powerful law enforcement to handle it, but I at the very least would like to have a emergency hearing to kick him off the board so we can have a president that wants to go by the laws and rules.

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=0600-0699/0617/0617.html

617.0809 Board vacancy.—

(3) The term of a director elected or appointed to fill a vacancy expires at the next annual meeting at which directors are elected. Any directorship to be filled by reason of an increase in the number of directors may be filled by the board of directors, but only for a term of office continuing until the next election of directors by the members or, if the corporation has no members or no members having the right to vote thereon, for such term of office as is provided in the articles of incorporation or the bylaws.