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AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
We are an entirely new Board of Directors after years of inaction by previous Boards which almost lead us into receivership last summer. We (a few volunteers and myself) saved the homeowners from that by going door-to-door collecting proxies from hundreds of homeowners (440 single family home subdivision). The past Boards contracted services from their friends (many of whom are local law enforcement). There was never any bidding, and we were being charged for excess services at a high rate.

The new Board got all new contracts with new vendors for our few expenses (attorney, insurance, property manager, etc.) however we left the 2017 lawn care contract in place, despite it being tied to the last Board and was easy cash (paid too much and they covered areas outside of HOA owned/maintained common areas). That contract expired this past fall as the landscaping season ended. The "contract" literally was a one sentence signed document indicating the lawn care provider will continue mowing the subdivision as per the year prior. This was authorized by the signed by the last property manager and the lawn care provider (both friends) since we didn't even have a Board at the time (previous Board had all resigned). We do not even have documentation of the original contract.

Fast forward to this month: a Board member met with our property manager and the former lawn care provider to do a drive though of our subdivision where the Board member got a better understanding of all the excess areas that had been serviced by the lawn care provider for years. The Board member indicated we will look for three bids for this season and left it at that.

Yesterday, the former lawn care provider, unbeknownst to the property manager or the Board, mowed the subdivision and will be charging us for this despite no contract being in place and no one authorizing him to do so.

I brought this to the attention of our property manager and indicated that no check should be issued to the lawn care provider until this is discussed at the next Board meeting (May 1). He replied with this message.....

"Hello, I have been made aware that the common areas have been mowed by LAWN CARE PROVIDER and there is some hesitation in paying him because there is no contract. Assuming this is accurate, please consider the following. If this is not accurate, disregard it!

We are already one week past when every other account of ours has received the 1st mow, it’s just that time and it needs to be done.

I believe the task of securing a vendor was on a board member and that has not been done. That’s fine, but we still need to keep the common areas up and the property looking good, that means somebody has to mow it. I see nobody better than FORMER LAWN CARE PROVIDER. He has been with the community for years, the pricing very reasonable and he does a good job. Why would we not pay him per mow until something is secured whether he gets the contract or not? It’s a win for everybody.

I have managed properties before that of been in this position and every client has always had the property maintained outside of a contract by some vendor, paid per mow. Before I go to much deeper into this, I am asking you to consider paying FORMER LAWN CARE PROVIDER and his crew per mow until the board secures who they would like to do the work. If you are refuse please let me know so I can move forward from there.

One other piece of information I would like you to consider is good landscaping companies already have their entire season and schedules filled. I’m not saying it’s impossible to add your account or anything, but we signed all of our landscaping contracts while snow was still on the ground to secure good vendors. I urge you all Secure something ASAP.

Looking forward to the direction you would like to go with FORMER LAWN CARE PROVIDER."

Property manager is former cop and former lawn care provider is currently law enforcement, hence their closeness.

How would you proceed?
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I think the manager is right. As inadequate as the contract was, it did state that the lawn service would continue each year as the previous year, plus it sounds like they had been doing it that way for a while. So, if the board did not cancel the contract, the lawn service had every reason to continue. One board member stating that they are getting bids changes nothing since he or she cannot make that decision.

I see no reason why the board could not cancel the contract but you should pay the service for any work done prior to cancelling.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I just want to add that I think you are right to be concerned about the manager hiring a friend without taking bids and there should be a policy written for the future.
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By BenA2 on 04/26/2018 5:48 PM
I think the manager is right. As inadequate as the contract was, it did state that the lawn service would continue each year as the previous year, plus it sounds like they had been doing it that way for a while. So, if the board did not cancel the contract, the lawn service had every reason to continue. One board member stating that they are getting bids changes nothing since he or she cannot make that decision.

I see no reason why the board could not cancel the contract but you should pay the service for any work done prior to cancelling.

I may have misstated it: the only contract we have with him (FORMER lawn care provider) was for last year; it was only for the 2017 lawn care season. In last year's contract, it stated he will continue as the previous year (2016). Thus, we have no valid contract at all on the table for lawn care for this year. Does that change your advice?
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamD1 on 04/26/2018 5:53 PM

I may have misstated it: the only contract we have with him (FORMER lawn care provider) was for last year; it was only for the 2017 lawn care season. In last year's contract, it stated he will continue as the previous year (2016). Thus, we have no valid contract at all on the table for lawn care for this year. Does that change your advice?

Ok, I misunderstood. That does make a big difference but I wonder why he went ahead and mowed. Maybe he had an indication from the manager that it was his for this year. If he is contracted every season and he was not this year, then I don't think you owe him anything. If there is any doubt and his intentions were good, it might not be worth the battle, especially since he did do the work.
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Property manager stated on the phone today that she did not give indication to him to mow, neither did the Board member who was on the drive around with them earlier this month. This is all on him.

I believe the former lawn care provided ASSUMED he was going to get the job this season and did it anyways. Or just has terrible bookkeeping/memory and didn't realize there isn't a contract.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Adam

Did the mowing need to be done?

Not liking the present provider is one issue but until you get another provider in place how do you expect the mowing to be done?

You may have to dance with the same partner until you find a new partner.

AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Did it need to be done? That's subjective. A lot of homeowners here have already mowed at least once this season, probably within the last week or so (myself included). Whether or not it is needed is besides the point, no?

I mean I think it could have easily waited until the Board reviews the bids on May 1 at our next meeting then have the contractor come service the limited common areas which need it. Keep in mind, this is just around our entrance signs and our gravel trail. VERY little work. However, in years past, the former lawn care provided did A LOT MORE lawn care, i.e. county roundabouts, lots the developer owns, behind the homes of more than 50 lots which are the responsibility of the homeowner, etc. Yesterday, he did the entire kit and kaboodle... something the Board isn't even looking for in terms of scope of service.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Adam

It appears you never fired the landscaper and he was just going on as usual.
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Do you need to fire a contractor if the contract expires organically?

It seems to me that if it's a year-to-year contract, either the vendor or Board initiates contact with the other prior to start of needing work done to formalize the work via a new contract.

If at the end of my newspaper subscription I do not renew, and the paper keeps coming, I wouldn't be obligated to pay them. I see it as the same thing, no?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I went through something similar. You need to fire the lawncare person ASAP. It needs to be clear, concise, and clear. Signed preferably. Plus get on the ball of hiring the new lawncare.

My ex-president and the lawncare guy were friends. Plus his pot dealer. It didn't help the lawncare guy was also a member of our HOA. They had signed a contract years ago. Normally they go from April till October. This time it went from May to October because of some mistake made. I had to go find the original contract. Which left me paying BOTH lawncare people for the month of May.

I don't believe it's the job of your Property Manager to be signing any contracts with vendors. That's a board job. The MC just cuts the checks and maybe keeps the paperwork. So it's time to severe that line as well. The MC is a contractor to the HOA not the other way around.

Former HOA President
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/26/2018 7:54 PM
I went through something similar. You need to fire the lawncare person ASAP. It needs to be clear, concise, and clear. Signed preferably. Plus get on the ball of hiring the new lawncare.

My ex-president and the lawncare guy were friends. Plus his pot dealer. It didn't help the lawncare guy was also a member of our HOA. They had signed a contract years ago. Normally they go from April till October. This time it went from May to October because of some mistake made. I had to go find the original contract. Which left me paying BOTH lawncare people for the month of May.

I don't believe it's the job of your Property Manager to be signing any contracts with vendors. That's a board job. The MC just cuts the checks and maybe keeps the paperwork. So it's time to severe that line as well. The MC is a contractor to the HOA not the other way around.

So would you pay for the unauthorized lawn care service?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Adam,

You need to read the actual contract.

Sometimes, they auto renew or require x days (up to 90) to terminate.

If you don't have a copy of the contract, ask the vendor for a copy of the previous contract.

In my opinion, since there appears to have been no definitive end to the contract (based on your last posting) I'd pay this one mow but state that their services are no longer required unless a new contract is in place.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Me? No I would not pay for it. I agree there. However, here is what may happen if your HOA refuses to pay. The lawncare person may threaten to sue the HOA or place a mechanics lien for the non-payment. Which this sounds bad and most would knee jerk react to paying them. If you stand your ground, then need to stand it.

My response to the person would be if they sued, then the HOA would counter-sue for their legal expenses for defending themselves. (It can be other expenses as well). I would also point out that the HOA needs proof there was a CURRENTLY signed contract for have done the work. It would be something required to be proof in court.

So if you stand your ground and can stand the rocks being tossed your way, I would not pay the person. It sucks for them. However, if you have such a business that is licensed/insured you should know to have a contract first before proceeding in doing the work. Just be careful of the "Verbal" agreement qualifications in your state. Does the MC have the right to give Verbal agreements? Otherwise, this should be in your HOA official notes. Something to also use in a court case if needed.

Former HOA President
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 04/26/2018 8:08 PM
Adam,

You need to read the actual contract.

Sometimes, they auto renew or require x days (up to 90) to terminate.

If you don't have a copy of the contract, ask the vendor for a copy of the previous contract.

In my opinion, since there appears to have been no definitive end to the contract (based on your last posting) I'd pay this one mow but state that their services are no longer required unless a new contract is in place.


I brought up the idea of "auto renewal" to our PM on the phone earlier today. They (the PM) do not have the original contract of 2016 which would indicate/not indicate such verbiage. From my recollection, I once did see this contract and don't believe there was an "auto renewal" clause in it.
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/26/2018 8:09 PM
Me? No I would not pay for it. I agree there. However, here is what may happen if your HOA refuses to pay. The lawncare person may threaten to sue the HOA or place a mechanics lien for the non-payment. Which this sounds bad and most would knee jerk react to paying them. If you stand your ground, then need to stand it.

My response to the person would be if they sued, then the HOA would counter-sue for their legal expenses for defending themselves. (It can be other expenses as well). I would also point out that the HOA needs proof there was a CURRENTLY signed contract for have done the work. It would be something required to be proof in court.

So if you stand your ground and can stand the rocks being tossed your way, I would not pay the person. It sucks for them. However, if you have such a business that is licensed/insured you should know to have a contract first before proceeding in doing the work. Just be careful of the "Verbal" agreement qualifications in your state. Does the MC have the right to give Verbal agreements? Otherwise, this should be in your HOA official notes. Something to also use in a court case if needed.

I'm kind of leaning toward this approach:

If there is NO contract in effect, then offer to pay a prorated fee for the common areas we are currently getting bids for, none of the fluff or padded areas where he mowed last year/yesterday. This would be as a courtesy to him. Then, officially terminate his service in writing and be done with him.

If there IS a contract in effect (which I HIGHLY doubt) I would request that the Board lives up to our contractual obligations.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I agree with that approach as well. They should get paid for what they did nothing extra. However, if the person becomes difficult then may need to change that game plan.

It took me lot of time to find our original contract with the lawn care person. They should have a copy if you can't find one. Otherwise, I would be suspicious of the agreement if it existed. Another change I would make with the MC.

Our HOA apparently got involved in a lawsuit during the turn over period with a lawn care company. Over 25 years ago. The developer signed a contract with a lawn care company but then hired someone else. The original company sued our HOA for like 40K. It eventually got settled. (Not sure how). The effects were still felt 20 years later in our HOA. So it was entirely VERY sensitive subject time when I took over the HOA and fired our lawncare.

Been where your at. It does get better. That is because after I fired the Lawncare (He was allowed to re-bid), we now have it set up to renew every year. We still have a 3 bid process in place. However, one of those bids is taken by the existing lawn care. Which allows us to give them a raise and/or liked them. We never do recurring contracts. 1 year only.

Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
As a management company, when I solicit an account, it is for as long as both parties agree. Every contract I see for services, such as landscaping, security, pool, etc have auto renewal in them It is not for just year, that would be crazy. I have a 30 day termination clause, with or without cause. I have annual increases, as long as the HOA approves.

I think while you are doing much of this, you should look into better document management. For an association of your size, it is piss poor, IMO.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
I think you should pay the lawncare company for the work they did. Then fire them. Then fire your property manager. All ASAP.
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 04/26/2018 10:25 PM
As a management company, when I solicit an account, it is for as long as both parties agree. Every contract I see for services, such as landscaping, security, pool, etc have auto renewal in them It is not for just year, that would be crazy. I have a 30 day termination clause, with or without cause. I have annual increases, as long as the HOA approves.

I think while you are doing much of this, you should look into better document management. For an association of your size, it is piss poor, IMO.

I just found the 2017 Lawn Care Contract. Technically, it's a signed estimate which just states "ESTIMATE FOR SERVICE: 2017 mowing season."

There is NO mention of auto renewal in the one-page "contract". Keep in mind, this is just a one or two man crew whose main job is NOT lawn care, but is law enforcement. Thus, the "contract" would be laughable on this site if you were to see its contents.
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 04/27/2018 1:47 AM
I think you should pay the lawncare company for the work they did. Then fire them. Then fire your property manager. All ASAP.

Fire our property manager? I just renegotiated our rate down to $1,000 monthly. I live in a college town and there are just a handful of PMs available, all of which would be considerably more expensive than our measly $95 a year dues could afford.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamD1 on 04/27/2018 7:17 AM
Posted By GenoS on 04/27/2018 1:47 AM
I think you should pay the lawncare company for the work they did. Then fire them. Then fire your property manager. All ASAP.


Fire our property manager? I just renegotiated our rate down to $1,000 monthly. I live in a college town and there are just a handful of PMs available, all of which would be considerably more expensive than our measly $95 a year dues could afford.

With 440 homes and $1000.00, you have a bargain, IMHO.
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
I agree, hence I don't think firing our PM will be considered. I just hope the PM doesn't bow out of the contract if we refuse to pay for this unathorized lawn care service.
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Update:

I spoke to both PM and former lawn care provider. PM DID authorize lawn care provider to mow the subdivision without approval from the Board.

One Board member wrote this email to the PM: ​
"Greetings,
Call me an old fuddy duddy but if a contractor is expecting to get paid for his work, I would expect him to pick up the phone and place a phone call before expending time and money. FORMER LAWN CARE PROVIDER probably didn't know who to contact on the board, but he should have been able to contact PM and PM should have been able to contact the board. I have not seen the previous contract so I do not know if there were provisions for charging on a per-activity basis. I don't like working with people who assume they can proceed without confirmation and still expect to get paid. A simple phone call could have resolved this in advance. Now, we have an issue where it could have been avoided. This does not reflect favorably in my mind. How much is he billing us for? I already have a firm quote on a per cut basis and am interested in how FORMER LAWN CARE PROVIDER'S rate compares. We need an answer on this before our monthly meeting on Tuesday."

Now there is a rift between them that I will try to throw some water on. What a fun way to start this warm, sunny weekend!

LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
It could be this landscaper is doing you a solid by getting on your good side and laying out some chicken feed to get back your business.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Funny... Sounds like this board member is on the same frame of mind you were on the matter. Except they expressed it straight to the PM. Maybe should have held off on it as an individual. Do have to say that board member was right. I kind of think the PM may be a bit on the inexperienced side or has questionable professional experience. More like the good ol' boys mindset.

Basically your PM doesn't understand the process/procedures the HOA is to take. Keep in mind the PM doesn't live or adhere to the HOA's rules. They aren't a member of the HOA. They are a paid sub-contractor to the HOA. (I assume NOT a member). Are they attending meetings?

I am not saying to get rid of the PM. Just think may want to look into the rationale of their spending. A HOA money is handled a bit differently than you do your own budget. It is bit more regimented and planned ahead. You don't go "I have the money in the bank so let's pay that bill". It's more like "We collected this much money this month. It has to go pay xyz. Which xyz is approved prior or known recurring expense".

Know you don't want to get rid of the PM. I would just let them know that the HOA has this process that has to be followed and not to write checks without board instruction. We have a 2 signature system that has 2 approved board members and the accountant had to sign every check before going out. Had to have all 3 signatures before it could be cashed.


Former HOA President
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/27/2018 10:01 PM
Funny... Sounds like this board member is on the same frame of mind you were on the matter. Except they expressed it straight to the PM. Maybe should have held off on it as an individual. Do have to say that board member was right. I kind of think the PM may be a bit on the inexperienced side or has questionable professional experience. More like the good ol' boys mindset.

Basically your PM doesn't understand the process/procedures the HOA is to take. Keep in mind the PM doesn't live or adhere to the HOA's rules. They aren't a member of the HOA. They are a paid sub-contractor to the HOA. (I assume NOT a member). Are they attending meetings?

I am not saying to get rid of the PM. Just think may want to look into the rationale of their spending. A HOA money is handled a bit differently than you do your own budget. It is bit more regimented and planned ahead. You don't go "I have the money in the bank so let's pay that bill". It's more like "We collected this much money this month. It has to go pay xyz. Which xyz is approved prior or known recurring expense".

Know you don't want to get rid of the PM. I would just let them know that the HOA has this process that has to be followed and not to write checks without board instruction. We have a 2 signature system that has 2 approved board members and the accountant had to sign every check before going out. Had to have all 3 signatures before it could be cashed.


Melissa

The majority of HOA managers and HOA management companies know a hell of a lot more than the Association and Board of Directors they represent. I am sorry to break this to you, but that is a fact. I speak from personal experience. You may have been involved in one or two HOA's, where I have been involved in over 120. So, I have pretty much seen everything.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamD1 on 04/27/2018 7:17 AM
Posted By GenoS on 04/27/2018 1:47 AM
I think you should pay the lawncare company for the work they did. Then fire them. Then fire your property manager. All ASAP.


Fire our property manager? I just renegotiated our rate down to $1,000 monthly. I live in a college town and there are just a handful of PMs available, all of which would be considerably more expensive than our measly $95 a year dues could afford.

That long quotation in the middle of your OP confused me so I probably misunderstood what you were asking. Naturally, if the mowing was done without the PM's knowledge then you can't hold them responsible for anything.

Pay the FORMER LAWN CARE PROVIDER for the work that they did. You needed it done anyway, right? Then consider if you want to come to terms on a new contract with them. If you don't then find somebody else.

I guess I don't understand what you're getting at. Did they still charge too much to cover "areas outside of HOA owned/maintained common areas"? So what if they're on friendly terms because the new PM and the FORMER LAWN CARE PROVIDER are run by retired police officers? What does that have to do with anything?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Number 1 Richard NOT all MC's are created equal nor do they all have to have certifications to be one. I can't assume every MC knows what they are doing just because they say they are an MC. Some states require certain qualifications to be met. Others it can be someone just willing to take on the job. Which in this case it kind of sounds like this Retired Police Officer felt they could take on. There is no mention if this MC has a business license or what experience/qualifications they have.

Genos -The OP's stated that the MC had the ex-lawncare mow the property. The issue is that it was without the approval of the HOA board. Now the HOA may be on the hook for paying for that service they did NOT approve nor requested. The MC acted on their own.

The choice is to pay the bill and fire the lawncare. They also may have the MC pay the bill out of their own pocket for not consulting/approving the work first.

Our ex-president had a loosey-goosey situation with our lawncare before I took over. Lawncare guy would decide he wanted to plant a tree and then send us the bill. Had to nip that in the bud. (Forgive pun). The board has to decide if they want the tree first before lawncare just goes out and buys it. The lawncare guy would get mad since we would not pay him back for the tree he bought. I was like you acted on your own without approval. It's NOT ask forgiveness but permission state in a HOA.

Former HOA President
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/28/2018 6:24 AM
Number 1 Richard NOT all MC's are created equal nor do they all have to have certifications to be one. I can't assume every MC knows what they are doing just because they say they are an MC. Some states require certain qualifications to be met. Others it can be someone just willing to take on the job. Which in this case it kind of sounds like this Retired Police Officer felt they could take on. There is no mention if this MC has a business license or what experience/qualifications they have.

Genos -The OP's stated that the MC had the ex-lawncare mow the property. The issue is that it was without the approval of the HOA board. Now the HOA may be on the hook for paying for that service they did NOT approve nor requested. The MC acted on their own.

The choice is to pay the bill and fire the lawncare. They also may have the MC pay the bill out of their own pocket for not consulting/approving the work first.

Our ex-president had a loosey-goosey situation with our lawncare before I took over. Lawncare guy would decide he wanted to plant a tree and then send us the bill. Had to nip that in the bud. (Forgive pun). The board has to decide if they want the tree first before lawncare just goes out and buys it. The lawncare guy would get mad since we would not pay him back for the tree he bought. I was like you acted on your own without approval. It's NOT ask forgiveness but permission state in a HOA.

Here was the response from owner of PM:

After looking more into it (EMPLOYEE and I have missed each other for a few days) sounds like my office gave the go ahead. They did that based on my training and experience. We knew nothing had been secured and also knew what the common areas looked like (I drove by as well as EMPLOYEE) and that they were about a week or so behind on needing the first round of mowing. Essentially in cases like this we (PM) feel that keeping the property maintained is critical, so it was authorized.

Having said that, it is also clear that it was not authorized by the Board. Each Board is different in the allowances/feel/delegation/relationship/etc. they have with PM. The SUBDIVISION leans far towards heavy Board involvement, so that should have funneled through your hands first. Managing HOA’s is difficult for a lot of reasons, this being one. So here is where I land with it:

I stand by the decision with the caveat that it should have been approved with you all. So I am happy to pay FORMER LAWN CARE PROVIDER out of my pocket for his work should that be the Board’s decision. I don’t think there needs to be any changes made to any process. Every Board is different, SUBDIVISION again handles more internal work than any other we manage, so I think the decision made was one we make frequently (in theory, not necessarily the exact circumstances) as most HOA’s leverage us to make decisions like this with an explanation if needed. Just done quickly with confidence that it was the right one (again, which I stand by) and we moved on. Missed funneling it through you all.

Appreciate the compliment. EMPLOYEE has a tough job and is amazing at it.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Adam,

Great. MC admitted mistake, took responsibility and identified (internally with MC) how to correct. This is a great MC.

I still think you should pay the invoice as the MC was looking out for the best interest of the development and it was an honest mistake.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/28/2018 6:24 AM
Number 1 Richard NOT all MC's are created equal nor do they all have to have certifications to be one. I can't assume every MC knows what they are doing just because they say they are an MC. Some states require certain qualifications to be met. Others it can be someone just willing to take on the job. Which in this case it kind of sounds like this Retired Police Officer felt they could take on. There is no mention if this MC has a business license or what experience/qualifications they have.

Genos -The OP's stated that the MC had the ex-lawncare mow the property. The issue is that it was without the approval of the HOA board. Now the HOA may be on the hook for paying for that service they did NOT approve nor requested. The MC acted on their own.

The choice is to pay the bill and fire the lawncare. They also may have the MC pay the bill out of their own pocket for not consulting/approving the work first.

Our ex-president had a loosey-goosey situation with our lawncare before I took over. Lawncare guy would decide he wanted to plant a tree and then send us the bill. Had to nip that in the bud. (Forgive pun). The board has to decide if they want the tree first before lawncare just goes out and buys it. The lawncare guy would get mad since we would not pay him back for the tree he bought. I was like you acted on your own without approval. It's NOT ask forgiveness but permission state in a HOA.

If MC's don't have qualifications or certifications, exactly, what do Boards have that self-manage themselves?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By AdamD1 on 04/26/2018 6:28 PM
Do you need to fire a contractor if the contract expires organically?

It seems to me that if it's a year-to-year contract, either the vendor or Board initiates contact with the other prior to start of needing work done to formalize the work via a new contract.

If at the end of my newspaper subscription I do not renew, and the paper keeps coming, I wouldn't be obligated to pay them. I see it as the same thing, no?

Typically a landscaping contract will say and at the end of its initial term (say one year) it automatically keeps going unless either party cancels it with 30 days written notice.
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
UPDATE: I spoke with the Board and we authorized full payment to contractor who did the work, despite us not authorizing it. We did let the PM know that for future reference, we are a hands-on Board and we want those decisions to be left to us.

I did meet with the lawn care provider and secured a new bid for this year at a greatly reduced rate since we eliminated areas which are not common property. The Board reviewed his bid and others, and we went with his.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Good job, Adam. It's a start.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Good job! Think it's great. It's very difficult to deal with lawn care changes. Think taking the best route in modifying the terms you have now. It will give you a good base for the next time when you have to gather bids. When I gathered bids had a map of the entire HOA. Believe it's part of the plat on record at the courthouse. Shrunk it down.

I was able to color coordinate and made notes (separate list) on that map of each member's needs or issues. It established who had dogs, gardens, areas wanted mowed, and other issues. This list made it so I could communicate to each bidder the needs and wants. Plus identified areas of where could modify.

Will warn you right now. Even though your lawn care specializes in yard work, do NOT assume they know plants! Meaning they may not recognize a weed from a flower. Something I learned the hard way. Planted some Hostas in our front area in the mulch. They pulled them thinking they were weeds. It also happened to a few members. So as simple as it sounds, you may warn your membership if they planted something that it is acknowledged/recognized as an ornamental plant.

Former HOA President
AdamD1 (Indiana)
Posts: 179
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 05/03/2018 8:28 PM
Good job! Think it's great. It's very difficult to deal with lawn care changes. Think taking the best route in modifying the terms you have now. It will give you a good base for the next time when you have to gather bids. When I gathered bids had a map of the entire HOA. Believe it's part of the plat on record at the courthouse. Shrunk it down.

I was able to color coordinate and made notes (separate list) on that map of each member's needs or issues. It established who had dogs, gardens, areas wanted mowed, and other issues. This list made it so I could communicate to each bidder the needs and wants. Plus identified areas of where could modify.

Will warn you right now. Even though your lawn care specializes in yard work, do NOT assume they know plants! Meaning they may not recognize a weed from a flower. Something I learned the hard way. Planted some Hostas in our front area in the mulch. They pulled them thinking they were weeds. It also happened to a few members. So as simple as it sounds, you may warn your membership if they planted something that it is acknowledged/recognized as an ornamental plant.

Good advice, but we are single family homes. The only areas that will be mowed will be our nature trail, around our front entrance signs, and along a sidewalk which parallel to a common area. The only weeding that will take place is in front of the front entrance signs where is rather bland with just mulch. If he can mess that one up, I'd be impressed!
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
There is a lesson here for all. Most landscaping contracts read that after a certain period of time (typically the first year) the contract continues on unless either party changes/cancels it.
HomE (Washington)
Posts: 29
Posted:
You have two things to do here. Competitively bid this out. That will take time and while both cops, they're not wrong. can you get an alternative? Does this person do a good job? is it market rate?

From a practical perspective, I doubt the provider would do that service if he or she wasn't sure they were going to get paid. They gave you a needed service. You're better off paying them. Just make it clear that the service will be upon request in the future.

Should you choose to keep current landscape company, have them provide a contract.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By HomE on 05/07/2018 2:21 PM
Should you choose to keep current landscape company, have them provide a contract.

Or Adam's board provides one for them. Everything is negotiable.

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