GlenM4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 141
Posts: 141
Posted:
Question, What happens if a treasure signs a contract as president?
Thanks
Thanks
A service of:
Community123.com
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
Professional websites for HOAs & condos, since 2004
🎁 1st year FREE for HOATalk members! →
Sign as presedent
Started by GlenM4 • 20 replies • 947 views
💬 Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.
Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds
Already a member? Log in
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Was there a documented board vote for the HOA to sign the contract?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenM4 on 04/24/2018 9:03 AM
Question, What happens if a treasure signs a contract as president?
Thanks
Question, What happens if a treasure signs a contract as president?
Thanks
Nothing if the BOD agrees with it.
GlenM4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 141
Posts: 141
Posted:
Was there a vote no, did others on board know they were getting the contract yes did they agree.. don't really matter cause there was no vote.
person A - pres
person B - treasure
person c - Member at large
person B said they were going to inter a contract (via phone message) Person A said ok do it.
person B signs contract with person B name but person A title.
does that make sense?
person A - pres
person B - treasure
person c - Member at large
person B said they were going to inter a contract (via phone message) Person A said ok do it.
person B signs contract with person B name but person A title.
does that make sense?
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
This was sloppy, and I would be disgusted the vote was not held at an open board meeting. But unless there is much more nonsense going on, I think it is not worth a legal challenge.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think I recall, Glen, that you've written previously that board members "agree" outside of meetings. This shouldn't happen. The Board should vote at meetings. Certainly this should occur re: contracts. The president should not "agree" with the treasurer. there should be a vote after all m board embers have reviewed the proposed contract. I think posters here have advised you previously about the importance of decisions occurring AT meetings.
Signing the contract with one's own name and someone else's title is completely sleazy, imo.
You're on the Board, right Glen?? If you can't encourage the Board to follow the law and your governing documents, you could be in trouble yourself if you don't protest on the record. By that I mean in the minutes a of a real meeting.
Signing the contract with one's own name and someone else's title is completely sleazy, imo.
You're on the Board, right Glen?? If you can't encourage the Board to follow the law and your governing documents, you could be in trouble yourself if you don't protest on the record. By that I mean in the minutes a of a real meeting.
GlenM4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 141
Posts: 141
Posted:
I know and right now there is nothing I can do but collect data on these issues. As I was going to also keep this in my (board done wrong) file, unless this is something common. I personally have never seen this allowed but wanted to make sure its uncommon and should not be done.
As for meeting mins, we dont have any.. which is about right considering no acts are really motion or voted on lol..
so for now , till next meeting, i am just collecting data and will present it at next community meeting (one every 6 months). While making sure to document me not "voting" as they would call it. And documents that show I told them this was against the CCRs and bylaws.
As for meeting mins, we dont have any.. which is about right considering no acts are really motion or voted on lol..
so for now , till next meeting, i am just collecting data and will present it at next community meeting (one every 6 months). While making sure to document me not "voting" as they would call it. And documents that show I told them this was against the CCRs and bylaws.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Hi Glen,
The contract would likely still be valid or the Association may have to pay to get out of the contract because the contractor acted in good faith with a representative of the Association.
Sometimes, the Board votes (or the President authorizes) someone else to sign on behalf of the Association.
The requirement that the President signs all contracts is an internal control vs. external.
If desired, the Board could go after the individual to recoup any damages (cost of contract or difference in contract a and contract b) but that would require additional legal costs, etc.
The contract would likely still be valid or the Association may have to pay to get out of the contract because the contractor acted in good faith with a representative of the Association.
Sometimes, the Board votes (or the President authorizes) someone else to sign on behalf of the Association.
The requirement that the President signs all contracts is an internal control vs. external.
If desired, the Board could go after the individual to recoup any damages (cost of contract or difference in contract a and contract b) but that would require additional legal costs, etc.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
I would be curious to see what the document looked like before going off the deep end. Our HOA our 3- 4 officers had signing rights. We had a 2 signing system on all our checks. So the Treasurer/Accountant signed and then we had to have 2 other officers sign. That was our checks and balances. (It does cost extra to have these special checks).
That basically meant those 3-4 had the right to write checks on the HOA account. Now granite my being President, I should be on every check. However, if I was on vacation or unable to sign checks I'd have 2 other officers sign them.
I am stating this because the Treasurer may be one of those "signees". If so, then they may be able to sign contracts. It being in the President's name is a bit odd. It may be that the form they signed was pre-made. Which the signature block for the person to sign was already labelled "President" "Date". They just signed above that line but not crossing out that title.
Not defending the action. It's just don't jump to conclusion there isn't a simple administrative issue.
That basically meant those 3-4 had the right to write checks on the HOA account. Now granite my being President, I should be on every check. However, if I was on vacation or unable to sign checks I'd have 2 other officers sign them.
I am stating this because the Treasurer may be one of those "signees". If so, then they may be able to sign contracts. It being in the President's name is a bit odd. It may be that the form they signed was pre-made. Which the signature block for the person to sign was already labelled "President" "Date". They just signed above that line but not crossing out that title.
Not defending the action. It's just don't jump to conclusion there isn't a simple administrative issue.
Former HOA President
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 04/24/2018 11:01 AM
Signing the contract with one's own name and someone else's title is completely sleazy, imo.
Signing the contract with one's own name and someone else's title is completely sleazy, imo.
Military does that at times.
It's called, By Direction Signature
See: BUPERS INSTRUCTION 5216.6
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sorry-- HOAs aren't military organizations.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Every state has different laws but there is probably nothing wrong with the treasurer signing the president's name with his or her consent. Whether or not they needed to have a meeting to approve the contract depends on the contract and your governing documents.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 04/24/2018 7:42 PM
Sorry-- HOAs aren't military organizations.
Sorry-- HOAs aren't military organizations.
Doesn't negate my point.
The President can authorize a by direction signature.
Additionally, the Board can authorize an Officer other then the President to sign contracts.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
I think Glen's point is that the board hasn't authorized this signature and didn't vote on the contract.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Glenn
Like it or not, a majority of the BOD (2 of 3) agreed.
Like it or not, a majority of the BOD (2 of 3) agreed.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Sorry, this sound like an Action Without Meeting (phone) and unless laws have changed , it requires a UNANIMOUS vote, not a majority vote.
I wouldn't allow someone to sign a document, as president, who wasn't.
I wouldn't allow someone to sign a document, as president, who wasn't.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Another of Glen's points, I think, JohnC, is that these "agreements" are not done at board meetings. and it sounds like actual board meetings are rare in Glen's HOA.
GlenM4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 141
Posts: 141
Posted:
I think some might not know what i am saying.
Jhon is the president
Bob signed a contract as " Bob - president"
his name but different title, that is my concern.
as for 2/3 vote yes , is not an issue cause a vote never happen at any meeting, thus the vote never happen.
Jhon is the president
Bob signed a contract as " Bob - president"
his name but different title, that is my concern.
as for 2/3 vote yes , is not an issue cause a vote never happen at any meeting, thus the vote never happen.
GlenM4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 141
Posts: 141
Posted:
also so there is no confusion. The document did NOT all ready have a line with president typed out it was like this
Name : .....
position: ......
Name : .....
position: ......
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenM4 on 04/25/2018 9:44 AM
I think some might not know what i am saying.
Jhon is the president
Bob signed a contract as " Bob - president"
I think some might not know what i am saying.
Jhon is the president
Bob signed a contract as " Bob - president"
Yep, thats a concern.
I'd bring it up at the next meeting
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GlenM4 on 04/25/2018 9:44 AM
I think some might not know what i am saying.
Jhon is the president
Bob signed a contract as " Bob - president"
his name but different title, that is my concern.
as for 2/3 vote yes , is not an issue cause a vote never happen at any meeting, thus the vote never happen.
I think some might not know what i am saying.
Jhon is the president
Bob signed a contract as " Bob - president"
his name but different title, that is my concern.
as for 2/3 vote yes , is not an issue cause a vote never happen at any meeting, thus the vote never happen.
That invalidates whatever he signed. Just my .02
🎯 You've read this entire discussion
Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:
- ✓ Ask follow-up questions
- ✓ Share your experience
- ✓ Get expert advice
- ✓ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account →
⚡ Takes 30 seconds
Already a member? Log in here