Can Board vote to violate the CC&Rs?

Started by JamesG16 • 8 replies • 738 views

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JamesG16 (California)
Posts: 2

Posted:

Our CA Four Seasons CC&Rs state that the Association will maintain, repair and replace our metal fencing that separates the home lots from the common area. This is to be done on a 50/50 cost-shared basis. But yet our Board has refused to take any action to remove the accumulated debris from the common area that has caused widespread corrosion of the lower rail. Many owners have found it necessary to prematurely replace their entire fencing run because of the damage discovered. How do we get the Board to spend about 1.5% of the current fence value for debris removal? Such preventative maintenance will extend the lifetimes many years into the future. The Board has twice voted down bids submitted to them by our management saying that is not their responsibility.

What recourse does one have to get this work done for the benefit of all parties? I did the clearance work myself on my fence and found four panels needing replacement after only 13 years at a cost of $1400.

Furthermore, the Board dropped the future fencing replacement fund entirely in our reserve study in order to keep our dues low. That dismissal was against our Davis Stirling Laws for major assets. Isn't this courting future disaster?

Do I need to get a lawyer for some 160 owners?

Jim

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

You are a member of the HOA. So sounds like it is you or your neighbors responsibility to do the work. A HOA isn't a separate entity. It is YOU and your neighbors. So when your blaming the "HOA NOT doing their fair share". Who do you think does the actual work? Fairies?

Your board is part of the HOA and just represents all the owners as a whole. That board has the choice of paying someone (a contractor) to do the work, one of them do the work themselves, or find volunteers in the HOA to do it. (Like yourself). Now keep in mind there could be some liability issues involved here why some options aren't happening. Some HOA's don't feel comfortable volunteers doing the work because of injury liability risks.

As for the cost involved. The board has to have # 1 have the money to pay for the work. #2 they have to vote to have it done. How irritated are you or your neighbors going to be if they see that expenditure? Are you going to go "They spent our dues money on cleaning up that areas on a contractor?". That is what they do if you want this done.

So no they aren't violating the rules. It's just no one wants to do the work and you can't make them volunteer to do it.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

James,

Welcome to the forum.

The section of the CC&Rs you cited has nothing to do with the clean up of the common area. However, I expect there is a section of the CC&Rs that specify the common areas are to be maintained. Therefore, if the Board is sharing the cost of the fence, they would be in compliance with the section you cited.

You don't identify what the debris is. I would think it's not the owners responsibility to clean the debris up, it might be the quickest solution to the problem.

I don't know how the issue has been presented to the Board. I would think the best way to present the issue would be to stress the savings it would bring to the Association. X fences have been replaced at a shared cost to the Board of $$$$.$$. A clean-up of the debris causing the premature replacement would be $$$.$$. If the Board chooses to do the clean up, a savings of $$$$$.$$ could be achieved by not having to replace the fences as often.

Regarding the failure to maintain a fencing replacement line item in the Reserves. I agree with you that this is foolish on the part of the Board. However, what capital components are in the Reserves and at what percentage they are funded is between the Board and the membership. That is to say, it's the Board's decision and the memberships responsibility to hold the Board accountable for their decision.

All of this being said, it's highly possible that the only real solution is to gather support and replace the Board at the next election. The new board can then address the issues you have presented here. Perhaps you will be one of those elected and be able to be part of the decision process.

Hope this helps,

Tim

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By TimB4 on 04/22/2018 6:23 AM

All of this being said, it's highly possible that the only real solution is to gather support and replace the Board at the next election. The new board can then address the issues you have presented here. Perhaps you will be one of those elected and be able to be part of the decision process.

I agree with this. The HOA board is similar to other democratically elected positions, such as a town council. People who run for the board have agendas (some are more concerned with low dues, others with high maintenance standards, for example), you need to work to elect board members who's agenda matches yours. That could possibly include yourself running. Unlike the town council, it's an unpaid position so there might not be a lot of competition for seats.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 04/22/2018 4:59 AM
You are a member of the HOA. So sounds like it is you or your neighbors responsibility to do the work. A HOA isn't a separate entity. It is YOU and your neighbors. So when your blaming the "HOA NOT doing their fair share". Who do you think does the actual work? Fairies?

Your board is part of the HOA and just represents all the owners as a whole. That board has the choice of paying someone (a contractor) to do the work, one of them do the work themselves, or find volunteers in the HOA to do it. (Like yourself). Now keep in mind there could be some liability issues involved here why some options aren't happening. Some HOA's don't feel comfortable volunteers doing the work because of injury liability risks.

As for the cost involved. The board has to have # 1 have the money to pay for the work. #2 they have to vote to have it done. How irritated are you or your neighbors going to be if they see that expenditure? Are you going to go "They spent our dues money on cleaning up that areas on a contractor?". That is what they do if you want this done.

So no they aren't violating the rules. It's just no one wants to do the work and you can't make them volunteer to do it.

I CALL BS on you!

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Richard you always call BS on me... It's nothing new.

The HOA is ONLY made up of it's members. Everyone is volunteers. So you can't make a volunteer do something you want them to do. The REALITY is the reason this debris wasn't cleaned up? No one wanted to do it. That's them there are the facts. Elect another board or do the work. It's your neighborhood and where you lay your head. Nobody does anything for you unless asked or forced. Did anyone go to a meeting to ask to have the board address the issue or did someone force the issue by filing a complaint?

Former HOA President

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Tim & Douglas make sense, James. Does your Board have monthly open meetings?? At the next open board meeting, you could try to cite the exact CC&R which says the HOA must maintain the common areas to see if that helps.

I'm pretty familiar with the Davis-Stirling Act, but don't recall the part that says items cannot be removed from the reserves study.

ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140

Posted:

You could hire a lawyer and sue the HOA, seeking an injunction ordering them to have the maintenance done, but that's likely to be expensive, and you're essentially suing yourself and your neighbors. Even if you win, you all lose.

As as been suggested, like others here have done, if you're unhappy with the decisions being made by your board, replace them. I never had any desire to be on an HOA board...but my desire not to live in an HOA run by idiots (and not have to move) changed that.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ArtL1 on 04/22/2018 2:19 PM
You could hire a lawyer and sue the HOA, seeking an injunction ordering them to have the maintenance done, but that's likely to be expensive, and you're essentially suing yourself and your neighbors. Even if you win, you all lose.

As as been suggested, like others here have done, if you're unhappy with the decisions being made by your board, replace them. I never had any desire to be on an HOA board...but my desire not to live in an HOA run by idiots (and not have to move) changed that.

Well said. One reason I am on the BOD is to prevent other idiots.......LOL

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