Suggestions how to get ballot measure

How would you suggest I get a motion passed by the entire association at the annual meeting with these conditions.

The motion is to limit the number of consecutive years a board member may serve. Also, the motion is to apply to the current board members.

The first problem is how to get it approved before the voting for the new board members. Since it applies to the current members, anyone running for the election could be invalidated if this passes. This vote would have to be resolved before the election is conducted.

Conditions:

There is no nominating committee or any other committee which manages the election process. The MC asks for names for the election and then sends out the ballots. I doubt there is any chance that this board would ever create a nominating committee.

I would say that there is very little chance that a mail-in ballot be conducted before the annual meeting. The cost is to big.

Absentee ballots are used. A packet is sent out so that homeowners can vote before the election. If there are any motions (like what I want), it would be included in this packet.

The board is lacking in legal training and very reluctant to do anything except what they want done. The invalidated a previous ballot motion with the statement that it had to be approved by the board, however, there is nothing in any documents or laws that supports that case. This motion, if passed, would not allow the majority of the board to run again and I would suspect they would not want to see it on the ballot.

How could I bring it up at the annual meeting (if I can't get it on the ballot) and have it acted upon before the election?

I am looking for ideas of how to get it on the ballot and then get it voted on before the election at the annual meeting.

This is not a CC&R change. It is probably a bylaw change. The only thing the bylaw change requires is

"These Bylaws may be amended by the affirmative vote of Members holding more than fifty percent (50%) of the votes cast with respect to the amendment."

There is no mention of when the change takes effect.

Even though I think this is a great idea, why do you think you need 50%? In our case, that would be impossible as we barely get 10% to vote in the election.

To approve an amendment to the By-laws usually takes a simple majority of the members voting at a duly called members meeting at which a quorum is present. Check your By-laws.

Example: 200 units; quorum = 20%; approval requires a simple majority of members voting with 1 vote/unit.

1) Meeting is duly called by notice of meeting including "there will be a vote taken on a proposed amendment to the By-laws concerning the term of office of Board members".
2) Members representing 40 units would meet quorum requirement to hold the meeting.
3) If 21 out of 40 vote yes the motion is approved.
4) As few as 21 approving out of 200 members may amend By-laws under this senario.
5) If passed a copy of the amendment to the By-laws is provided to every owner.

Joe - The part that RobertG quoted didn't have anything to do with the requirements for getting the amendment on the ballot. That quote was only about what is required to change the Bylaws once the measure is on the ballot. Even then it only requires a yes vote from more than 50% of votes cast, not 50% of the members.

I think your logic is a bit flawed.

First, there is no requirement to publish any agenda so your last statement has no meaning in this context. I agree that meeting notification must be given.

Second, asserting that having one person request an agenda item and then passing by a simple majority of attending homeowners is what happens all the time. If you have a board with 7 members, there can be no more than 7 people who make up the agenda in the first place. There is no difference in one person requesting an item to be placed on an agenda than one person being recognized at a annual meeting and making a motion. One person starts the events in either case.

As pointed out, requiring 50+% to sign a petition is a non-starter. It would be amazing if the board is elected (a much more important topic) with barely 11% of the members voting. With 800 homes, we believe some of the board got elected with about 20 votes.

RobertG - Your original post started by stating, "How would you suggest I get a motion passed by the entire association at the annual meeting with these conditions." So you went from seeking a motion passed by an "entire association" to now not even trying to get 50+% (a non-starter), and find my logic flawed. Interesting.

What do your by-laws require as quorum for person or by proxy to hold an annual meeting or election meeting?

A Board that got elected with 20 votes is 2.5% of the membership. You mean to tell me that your by-laws require anything over 2% to elect or amend?

You are mixing all different aspects of the process. I think you are confusing getting a motion to be discussed during the meeting (getting on the agenda) or putting it on the agenda with passing the motion.

Your last statement doesn't make sense - what does elect have to do with amend relative to bylaws. What I was stating was that on 20 votes were necessary to get a board member elected. That has nothing to do with the bylaws being amended.

We only require 10% of the members to vote by mail or be in person to constitute quorum for the annual meeting. That means if 80 people send in a ballot (we have 800 homes), we can have an election. Then, the 7 highest vote getters will be elected to the board. Some people only cast their vote for one board member so no one is really guaranteed 80 votes (or even close).

My point is that if you are suggesting that 400 homeowners are requested to sign a petition to get an item on the agenda, then that will be impossible since no more than about 100 homeowners even voted at the last annual meeting.

I must not be explaining myself clearly. There is no requirement to get an item on the agenda. The rules are silent on this issue. There is not discussion of any petition mechanism in any rules. The 10% only has to do with determining if quorum has been met.

FYI: Proxies are not legal here.

My point is that if we just have a quorum of 80 owners, then 41 would be only the number that need to vote in favor. Why should I need more than that to get the item on the agenda. Also, the agenda (typically) is created by the President and that is just one person. I don't believe you only put items on the agenda you know will pass. The purpose is to put items up for discussion and see what happens. If 50% of those voting don't like my idea, so be it. That doesn't mean I shouldn't have the ability to be heard. The annual meeting is the only part of the HOA that is the closest to a democratic form of government in the entire process. Each person's ideas should carry equal importance.

RobertG - You need 80 owners to show up to make quorum. Say you have 41 owners that show up and are ready to vote in favor of passing board term limits. If only 70 owners attend the meeting including the BOD than you don't have the requirements of quorum. What do your bylaws speak to that? I'm trying to get you to see an option for how you get something on the agenda. That was your original post. You have the ability to be heard, but that doesn't guarantee you will be successful. You know what you are up against. If all you have to do is make a motion at the meeting than you have the answer to your question.

RobertG, if the amendment is approved after the election it can be made retroactive,i.e., applies to the current board members.

I just pulled out my Robert's and it appears to me that you can make the motion from the floor without it being on the agenda.

Do you have a board to replace the one you are trying to oust -- as that seems like what you are really doing, given that you are trying to get a motion passed that would make them ineligible. Of course IMO any board that doesn't try to drum up people to run for the board deserves to be ousted and it appears that you have had no outreach at all to try to get anyone but the same old same old to run.

RogerB, are you then saying that, since this really would be a by-laws change, proper notice would have to be given to the members before the meeting stating that this specific by-law change is to be made? Or, do you mean a notice needs to be made before the meeting that SOME change is going to be proposed to the by-laws? Since we never adopted RR, what do you base this need of notification on? Our by-laws have no such specific requirement to change by-laws, they just define the percent of vote require to pass.

Of course you are correct. However, I find that people will vote to change something that is unpopular if all it means is to say yea or nay. But to ask them to commit time to a task like a board member is like trying to get the person eat worms - totally unthinkable.

You all may still have convinced me to just do some recruiting, even though I think the concept is valid even if there is a good board in place.

JudithC - my feeling at the moment is that if we have 7 members on the board and we were to loose 4 of them due to term limits that would be preferable to keeping them on. The board still can operate on 3 members, may require more work, but they can always appoint 4 new directors. I do think that if someone is approached to fill a vacancy they will consider it more than if they are just asked to run for the original election.

Again, this may all be pure speculation in that at the last election, only 7 people ran for office (out of 7 positions). Only one person changed and that ended up as a swap between and husband and wife.

Does this mean you have a staggered election? If so, then you still would have some board members left if only those who are to be reelected choose not to run. Even if everyone quits, there still might be a way to get some people back. A board of only 1 person still can function the way a full board does.

I will trade your board who wants to quit for mine, and maybe even throw in a future draft choice!

RobertB - Don't you understand that the "who to get", or how many to get, is the "how to get"? If you get 80 owners to sign a petition calling for board term limits and a request to the President to add it to the upcoming meeting or hold a special meeting to accomplish it, IMHO you hold a much better chance than dismantling the BOD with no one (but yourself maybe) to fill the vacancies.

Judith - I agree. We already have plans to change that part of the Bylaws so that no more than 1 incumbent must be returned. I don't mind having a small fraction of the board stay on for the sake of consistency, but having that requirement to keep most of the Board seems like a definite path to cronyism.

Of course, the real problem here is that we only have 3 Board members. For this size HOA (313 homes) I think there should be at least 5. Unfortunately for some reason our Board size is specified in the CC&Rs instead of the Bylaws, so that is going to be a little more difficult to get changed (to say nothing about then finding the people to be on the Board).