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KimberlyW2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 38
Posted:
Now that the real estate market has taken off in my community- we are seeing a few units go up for sale and are seeing more new homeowners than renters. It is a positive thing!

However, 2 new owners seem to be refusing to pay dues. We have sent all the proper papers- documents- coupon books, etc. Along with late notices, as they are now approaching the 4th month of non payment.

Our property management company has no contact information - e-mail or phone number- only the mailing address for these owners.

I'm curious how many of you see new buyers simply refusing to pay? Or somehow believing the dues don't apply to them? I'm going to be honest- we are a small complex and don't have a huge turnover in owners, so this is kind of a new thing. For the last decade- most of our owners have stayed put or have rented out their home.

Of course we will place a lien if this continues- with late fees and administrative fees they are both still under the $500 amount owed, but are quickly approaching that amount.

I am just surprised at someone buying a condo in 2018 and not being fully aware there will be HOA dues and why? Should I be? Or am I being naΓ―ve?

K.

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
During the 10 years I served on my HOA board (5 as treasurer), delinquencies is something that came up over, and over and over again. There are a lot of reasons why it happens and I found there were two sets of delinquent owners. As you note, there were those who seemed to have the attitude that everyone else should pay assessments except them (while still expecting the services provided by the association). and the ones who had financial hardships due to job loss, major medical illness or now living on a fixed income which hasn't kept up with inflation and the higher assessments necessary to keep up with inflation. It was very frustrating - it's one thing to work with the folks who had genuine financial hardships (usually they were up front about it), but the others came up all sorts of tricks to avoid paying. We caught some of them, but others eventually walked away from the house and the association was out thousands of dollars. I hope your lien leads to better results - we also use them and have had some success with them.

That being said, after 2008's real estate meltdown, you would think everyone would be using more thought in buying a home, but unfortunately, we still have people who pay more attention to buying groceries or a car than a house. It's also true some people aren't told about them (the owner and realtor are more interested in the money and the owner wants to get out as soon as possible). Of course, they're shocked and dismayed s soon as that coupon book hits the mailbox. In my state the law was changed a year or two ago requiring certain disclosures before a house is sold, such as the presence of a HOA and whether there are outstanding assessments against it. I don't know how effective it is, but I would hope it's a start.

So, don't be surprised at the lack of knowledge. In the end, I think people need to take more initiative in figuring out what they're getting into, considering all the time and money they're about to spend. At the ripe old age of 40, I was a first time homebuyer when I brought my townhome and one of the best things I did was to sign up for a program for first time homebuyers that took you through the entire process, from cleaning up your credit to the basics of home maintenance. They didn't talk about HOAs very much, but because it was mentioned and my realtor told me there was one governing my community, I did some research on my own.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
Get a copy of their escrow documents where they signed knowing there is an association fee and they acknowledged knowing to pay it.
All you can do is file a lien against their property. Before you do that, have your lawyer send them a courtesy letter pointing out that they acknowledged
that they knew there is an association fee and outline the consequences if they don't pay. Hopefully they will get with the program. The threat of having the
sheriff come to their house to evict them for non payment just might be the carrot to hold in front of them to comply.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
In my area, and probably Florida in general closing agents seem to do a good job of letting buyers know what to expect, and we've had no problem new owners and dues.

Luckily, our default rate has always been low, mostly homes in foreclosure, occasionally because of financial difficulty, never because people just don't want to pay.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Kimberly,

As Treasurer for my Association, I know this happens a lot.

You use a management company (MC) that may or may not be doing their due dilligence.

All the letters I send, in the return address section of the envelope I skip a line and add the words Return Service Requested. This will have the post office notify me of the forwarding address if any. Otherwise, I might never know.

It's possible that the new owners thought this was covered by escrow. It's not, but you would be surprised how many think this.

It's possible that the new owners don't pick up or read their mail. It's rare, but I have had this happen. So many get used to doing everything online that they don't think about checking the mailbox. After the mailbox gets full, the post office simply won't deliver anymore, but hold it at the post office.

My suggestion, go knock on the door.

Don't use the approach that it's their fault. Use the approach that you expect something got out of sync and simply talk to the neighbors about the issue, making sure the mailing address is correct, etc.

If they rebuff you, at least you tried and there will likely be very little concern in filing a lien and starting foreclosure proceedings.

If concerned about your safety, bring another board member with you.

Hope this helps.

Tim
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
In Florida condos there's an obligation on the part of the seller to deliver all relevant documents and rules to the buyer. There is no such obligation in an HOA. There's a "disclosure summary" that's the responsibility of the seller to deliver to the prospective buyer that should disclose the existence of an HOA and the assessment amounts, but if the seller does not give that to the buyer before they go to contract, the buyer gets an extra 3 days to back out of the deal. There's also an Estoppel Letter (or certificate) prospective buyers can demand (and they have to pay for it) that lists any overdue moneys owed to the association and/or outstanding violations on the property. A very useful thing to have, unfortunately it's not legally required to obtain one and a buyer will be on the hook if he does not obtain one and encounters a nasty surprise after closing. In Florida there's also a presumption that since the deed restrictions and covenants are recorded in the public records of the county, it's on the buyer to be aware of that. Caveat Emptor and all that.

With that said, realtors and real estate agents will often walk a buyer through the process and strive to make sure the buyer is fully informed. But not all of them. We have a few owners who bought homes here and had absolutely zero idea that they were moving into an HOA where monthly assessments were mandatory. Luckily, none of them had a real problem with it.

We're very fortunate in that the last delinquency here was wrapped up about 7 years ago. During the great financial crisis about 6 owners lost their homes due to financial hardship. Since then, as far as I know, we haven't had any delinquincies go past 90 days. There's certainly no one here who's not paying out of spite or a mistaken sense of "I don't have to pay".
KimberlyW2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 38
Posted:
Thank you everyone for your thoughtful replies. You have given me some great advice. I really appreciate it. I did find one of the new owners is actually renting out his unit- and found an alternative address on the deed.

Our management company did not have the alternative address- which was very easy to find online- and had been sending all notices to the physical address ( and tenant ) which I am sure quickly went to the garbage can! Very frustrating.

Hopefully now the notices will go to the correct place.

K.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Typically, a closing company will contact the Assocaition to obtain a status of the account (current through date, amount of assessment, etc.). When this happens, I always ask for a copy of the ALTA (replaced the HUD-1) or deed (as Richard from CA asks for). I specify this is so the Association has the correct spelling of the buyers name and contact info (which is helpful in the case of rentals). Every closing company (or closing attorney) I've asked has provided.
KimberlyW2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 38
Posted:
Thank you, Tim. I suspect our management company is not doing a complete job when it comes to updating owner information- I do a lot of prodding and questioning about our delinquent accounts. Maybe too often before anything moves forward.

I think our manager has too many properties in her portfolio.

K.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Remember there are 2 things assured in life... Death and Taxes... So if you ever need to find someone go to the tax records. It should provide the information of current or recently former owner information.

Plus always keep sending notice to BOTH addresses. If you ever have to take legal action like foreclosure, you want to make sure that HOA address is given proper notification even if the person does not live there. Courts seem to like to show proof the HOA did try to contact the owner via their HOA address as well.

It's not unusual for the HOA not to have the latest owners information. Our Secretary is responsible for keeping up with this according to the responsibilities of the board officers. However, many don't or think the MC does it. As you found out, that's not exactly true. Not all HOA's know who all the owners are 100% of the time. It's just best to establish a process or someone responsible to make sure that happens.

Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KimberlyW2 on 03/29/2018 9:05 AM
Thank you, Tim. I suspect our management company is not doing a complete job when it comes to updating owner information- I do a lot of prodding and questioning about our delinquent accounts. Maybe too often before anything moves forward.

I think our manager has too many properties in her portfolio.

K.

I do not see this as a duty of the MC.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/29/2018 4:07 PM
Posted By KimberlyW2 on 03/29/2018 9:05 AM
Thank you, Tim. I suspect our management company is not doing a complete job when it comes to updating owner information- I do a lot of prodding and questioning about our delinquent accounts. Maybe too often before anything moves forward.

I think our manager has too many properties in her portfolio.

K.


I do not see this as a duty of the MC.

Who's then?
KimberlyW2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 38
Posted:
The MC receives payment of dues, sends out late notices, meeting notices, etc. They have an account set up for every owner and every unit number.

If they are not responsible to keep a current list of contact information for HOA membership- then who is?

That simply makes no sense. If it is strictly up to me or another board member to keep track of owner information- why are we paying a MC?

???

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KimberlyW2 on 03/29/2018 4:37 PM

If they are not responsible to keep a current list of contact information for HOA membership- then who is?


Typically, the Association Secretary has the responsibility to maintain the membership list.

Your Association has delegated the task to the MC.

Keep in mind that one can delegate tasks. They can not delegate responsibility.

This goes for finances as well.
The Treasurer is responsible for maintaining the books for the Association.
The MC has been delegated with that task.
However, the Treasurer should spot check from time to time (trust but verify).
To illustrate: If money goes missing, the question will become why didn't the Treasurer know about it sooner.

GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KimberlyW2 on 03/29/2018 4:37 PM
If they are not responsible to keep a current list of contact information for HOA membership- then who is?

The Secretary.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Just to clarify, the association's MC may assist the board by keeping track of sales, but it's ultimately the board's responsibility to have a firm grasp on the list of owners. You can delegate some of that to the MC but it's ultimately the association's responsibility to know who the owners/members are. Normally this is information maintained by the Secretary. If your MC goes out of business tomorrow and locks their doors and stops answering the phones, who's in control of the list of owners? It had better be the Secretary.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
I agree with you Kimberley. While others are right that the association board and officers have ultimate responsibility for just about everything, that does not mean they are responsible for actually doing the tasks needed to accomplish those duties. The purpose for hiring a manager of management company (MC) is to accomplish tasks that would otherwise fall on volunteer board members.

If the MC's contract says they are responsible for keeping and updating member records, then it is their legal duty. It does not eliminate the board's or officer's responsibilities which, in this case, would be to make sure the MC does their job. This is no different then contracting with a landscaping company to mow the grass in the common areas. It is still the board's responsibility to make sure it is done, but no one expects board members or officers to mow the grass.

I do think it is a good idea for the board to have complete access to those records, which should also be in the contract.
KimberlyW2 (Tennessee)
Posts: 38
Posted:
They are responsible for keeping that information up to date. And, all board members have access to every owners account, information ( though usually just an address- correct or not ) as well as all financial records and I do keep track of everything- However, our board is not very involved beyond voting on the items that must have full board vote. They do the bare minimum. Unfortunately, if they are required to do much more- we would fail to have a board, at all. And, I mean that completely. No one would volunteer. Ever. No matter the consequences.

So, those that have a healthy board and HOA- be thankful. We do not.

Thanks again everyone for the responses to my original question- I was able to pass the correct info along to the MC and she actually sent a new notice out yesterday.

K.

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