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SandraS12 (California)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Hello
I am the president of a 18 unit condo complex. We have 7 out of 18 units leased out, non owner occupied.
Each non owner occupied unit has 4-5 people residing at this address, while owner occupied units have 1-2 people residing.
Our community has one water meter for the entire complex.
My question is, "Can the board impose a water usage fee to all non owner occupied unit, owners?

SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
Probably not unless your HOA documents have language that allows the association to put certain requirements on non-owner occupied units. Read those first (board members like yourself should have more than a passing familiarity with them anyway).

It would appear you're concerned that the units housing more people are using more water, and with one meter, it's hard to gauge if that's true or not. You might want to talk to the water company to see what can be done, as I'm sure they have other customers in the same situation.

I remember from my apartment living days, the gas heat was included in the rent and the complex was in the utility's budget plan, where it paid a set amount each month. At the end of winter, the complex would get a bill from the gas company for the difference, the manager would divide that by the number of apartments and individual tenants would be responsible for his/her/their portion.

That could be one way you can address this, otherwise, you might want to look into giving everyone individual water meters so each owner is responsible for his/her own bill. Of course, this will likely take some construction, which would be expensive - and the association would have to pay for it.

If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
You might get away with metering each unit and the association billing each individual unit. Match the master meeter readings with each units reading and bill accordingly.

I lived in a MHP that did this because too many people started wasting water
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SandraS12 on 03/26/2018 4:24 PM
Hello
I am the president of a 18 unit condo complex. We have 7 out of 18 units leased out, non owner occupied.
Each non owner occupied unit has 4-5 people residing at this address, while owner occupied units have 1-2 people residing.
Our community has one water meter for the entire complex.
My question is, "Can the board impose a water usage fee to all non owner occupied unit, owners?


Yes, IF you change the language of your CCRs.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Richard sounds right to me, Sandra. Since you might want to hang your CC&Rs, you might also want to change the maximum number of pesons per bedroom.

But....would you have the votes to charge extra or to limit the # of occupants??
SandraS12 (California)
Posts: 7
Posted:
I found a paragraph regarding liens & assessments in our CC&Rs, that seems to cover the water usage assessment.

Reads as follows:

a) The Board of Directors of Association shall have the right from time to time to make
assessments upon any condominium (1) to meet the necessary maintainance, operation, and administrative expenditures of the corporatation and (2) to provide adequate reserves for such expenditures.

Thank you for all your input
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SandraS12 on 03/26/2018 10:31 PM
I found a paragraph regarding liens & assessments in our CC&Rs, that seems to cover the water usage assessment.

Reads as follows:

a) The Board of Directors of Association shall have the right from time to time to make
assessments upon any condominium (1) to meet the necessary maintainance, operation, and administrative expenditures of the corporatation and (2) to provide adequate reserves for such expenditures.

Thank you for all your input

What you want to find is the section which states the assessments are shared equally or if you have any type of variable. There could be a few expenses that could be assessment variably, such as water, insurance, utilities, etc.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Richard makes a good point. Our condos, for instance, have variable assessments based on s.f. for water, gas & bldg. insurance.
SandraS12 (California)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Does not mention variable, after that it just explains penalty fines for non-payment.
It does not mention assessments to be shared equally.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Unless each condo unit has its own water meter, or has the capability of being "sub-metered," I think your condo will struggle to prove it is being fair to each condo owner.

A number of companies do sub-metering. Sometimes a condominium community cannot sub-meter individual condos without massive re-piping, tearing out walls and so on.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SandraS12 on 03/27/2018 12:40 AM
Does not mention variable, after that it just explains penalty fines for non-payment.
It does not mention assessments to be shared equally.

You need someone qualified to review your CCRs. There is a provision in that documents that will specifically state how assessments will be paid and if shared equally or on a variable basis.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Is this your HOA? Desperately looking for a culprit?
https://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=228375
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Given that if this goes up for a vote, that 60% of the units will probably vote against it, and may not support ther BOD members that voted for it, you may consider alternatives.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
You're setting yourself up for major problems, assuming there are no meters per unit. I've been a little ways down this road and can tell you it's a slippery slope. Just because one household has more people in it does not mean they use more water. You can not prove that without meters. You have 4 family members that shower in under 3 minutes each in one home, and a man and wife that each enjoy 20 minute showers twice a day in the other.

If you need to raise the assessments to cover water usage it will have to be an increase to all units. If you're trying to get at the rentals because they are rentals, then you need to work on your governing documents.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SandraS12 on 03/26/2018 4:24 PM
Hello
I am the president of a 18 unit condo complex. We have 7 out of 18 units leased out, non owner occupied.
Each non owner occupied unit has 4-5 people residing at this address, while owner occupied units have 1-2 people residing.
Our community has one water meter for the entire complex.
My question is, "Can the board impose a water usage fee to all non owner occupied unit, owners?


I suggest, for the next meeting you suggest a change to the CC&R's that raises the assessments for non owner occupied units. Trying to use water usage as a reason isn't going to be easy.

If that link to that other forum is actually your post, there is a statement made by the OP in that post that refutes the claim that the old lady is too blame. This could just be an error in the paragraph, and not what was meant, but that is why it's nearly impossible to prove things like this.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Disregard that last post. With 7 out of 18 rented and the requirement for changing the CC&R's probably being 2/3rds of the owners agreeing, it would never pass.
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 03/27/2018 9:57 AM

I suggest, for the next meeting you suggest a change to the CC&R's that raises the assessments for non owner occupied units. Trying to use water usage as a reason isn't going to be easy.

If that link to that other forum is actually your post, there is a statement made by the OP in that post that refutes the claim that the old lady is too blame. This could just be an error in the paragraph, and not what was meant, but that is why it's nearly impossible to prove things like this.

Or that they first decided to blame the old lady, then when they figured out that wasn't going to work, they decided to blame another group.

What does the OP intend to do when the group of five renters tell the BOD that they either don't shower, all shower together or shower at the gym?
SandraS12 (California)
Posts: 7
Posted:
Not sure how blaming the old lady comes into play
I just wanted to get some friendly advise on this matter from more experienced Board members.
So far the forum has been a great. Its a great opportunity to get someone else's input.
Lets keep it that way
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MarkM31 on 03/27/2018 10:03 AM
Posted By DouglasM6 on 03/27/2018 9:57 AM

I suggest, for the next meeting you suggest a change to the CC&R's that raises the assessments for non owner occupied units. Trying to use water usage as a reason isn't going to be easy.

If that link to that other forum is actually your post, there is a statement made by the OP in that post that refutes the claim that the old lady is too blame. This could just be an error in the paragraph, and not what was meant, but that is why it's nearly impossible to prove things like this.


Or that they first decided to blame the old lady, then when they figured out that wasn't going to work, they decided to blame another group.

What does the OP intend to do when the group of five renters tell the BOD that they either don't shower, all shower together or shower at the gym?

Ask if they could join in?
MarkM31 (Washington)
Posts: 494
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By SandraS12 on 03/27/2018 7:51 PM
Not sure how blaming the old lady comes into play
I just wanted to get some friendly advise on this matter from more experienced Board members.
So far the forum has been a great. Its a great opportunity to get someone else's input.
Lets keep it that way

I guess you didn't follow the link. I was wondering if you were a poster on another forum where they had a similar situation, except caused by an old lady. The state, number of units and type of association was the same. If you had read the posts and followed the links, you could have seen that. Lets keep it that way.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Sandra,

I disagree with those that say if you amend the CC&Rs you can charge a usage fee on just non-owner occupied units. I also doubt you would obtain enough signatures to make such an amendment based on the number of rented units.

If you want to impose a water usage fee, it should be charged equally. I suspect your documents specify assessments are equal or based on percentage.

Instead, look at what it would cost to meter each unit. This would remove the water bill issue completely.

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