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MaryannS4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I am dealing with a very ugly election, with a Candidate who is also a current Board Member doing some things that are just not right. Aside from the Slander, which is bad enough, I have evidence that they have used community resources (i.e. our onsite office, phone and owner info) to make campaign calls to many of our homeowners, including out of State Snowbirds. In addition, I have direct evidence that this person has also incurred legal expenses without Board Approval. We happen to be running against each other and I have tried to run a positive and fair campaign, unfortunately this person has spread many slanderous rumors about me and is using unfair an illegal tactics. We do have a Management Company, but they are trying to stay neutral. I asked them what happens if I am able to prove that this person was using community assets unfairly to campaign and was told we would have to get legal opinion. We have already spent a lot of money on attorney fees and I do not want to authorize any funds without Board knowledge or approval. Our community is in Florida. Any advise or opinions would be greatly appreciated.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
I have yet to see case law on a HOA "dirty election" with dirt like that you describe. It might exist for for-profit corporations. It is frustrating, and I feel for you, having seen this sort of activity. One reality is that, during campaign season, the law does say that the bar for defamation is very high, because the candidates are a flavor of "public figure." To ensure that debate is robust and free speech rights are protected, the courts typically rule generously in favor of defendants when a claim of defamation is made. You can see lots of case law on this point, adjudicating municipal and state elections, for one. (The big shots at the U. S. Congressional and Presidential level get so much press coverage that the facts tend to come out, and lawsuits are more rare.)

I think one just has to hope that the meanies eventually become exposed for who they are. Then your circle of neighbors can aggressively campaign door-to-door; using online forums; making statements at board meetings (or immediately afterwards) and so on.

It seems like this forum is receiving many more reports of serious HOA board abuses. I am surprised at how some of the veterans are saying they would prefer not to live in a HOA. I am also reinforced by this in my own decision-making in the coming years. It's so hard to find competent directors for a HOA Board. They're paid nothing. It attracts bad talent too often.
MaryannS4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Yes the "dirty-campaigning" is really frustrating, and hard to prove. I have tried to keep things positive and refuse to stoop to that level. What I am trying to do is go by the letter of the law, which is why I am need to understand what the ramifications are if an existing Board Member, running for re-election, is caught using community assets to campaign. Plus, I have direct evidence that she has ordered legal opinions, incurring a hefty legal bill, without ANY Board approval. I am trying to figure out if I have standing to have her removed for cause and/or arrested for a criminal offense. The slander is just personally offensive and I understand will be difficult to prove.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
There is actually case law that might help.

WITTENBURG v. BEACHWALK HOMEOWNERS ASSN.
(2013) 217 Cal.App.4th 654

Look at the defendants that lost the case.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryannS4 on 03/23/2018 8:21 AM
Yes the "dirty-campaigning" is really frustrating, and hard to prove. I have tried to keep things positive and refuse to stoop to that level. What I am trying to do is go by the letter of the law, which is why I am need to understand what the ramifications are if an existing Board Member, running for re-election, is caught using community assets to campaign. Plus, I have direct evidence that she has ordered legal opinions, incurring a hefty legal bill, without ANY Board approval. I am trying to figure out if I have standing to have her removed for cause and/or arrested for a criminal offense. The slander is just personally offensive and I understand will be difficult to prove.


This forum has some great contributors from Florida who I hope will chime in. I do not know Florida law, but nationwide, removing a director for any reason can only be done by a super-majority vote of the members. Removing an officer (President, VP, treasurer, secretary) typically can be achieved by a board vote.

I think the offenses you describe are more the stuff of a civil claim, not criminal prosecution. You might want to send a letter to the HOA attorney and ask why he or she is doing legal research at the behest of one board member. (Is this board member the president?) Do you have other board members who see things as you do? You certainly could hire an attorney; go through a few months of demand letters; maybe file in court; and so on. But god it's painful and exhausting. You're a volunteer. You are being messed over. It's the plight of so many HOAs. It seems particularly bad lately, from the reports I am seeing of veterans here.

Richard, nice citation of a good read on HOA election abuses. Though it is California law, it seems to me that some of the principles from it may apply elsewhere.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 03/23/2018 8:44 AM
WITTENBURG v. BEACHWALK HOMEOWNERS ASSN.
(2013) 217 Cal.App.4th 654


http://caselaw.findlaw.com/ca-court-of-appeal/1636678.html
MaryannS4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
I am the current President, this person is the current Vice President. We are both running for the new Board President with elections coming up in the next 30 days. I do believe I have the support of the majority Board. Many of them are extremely upset about this person's actions. The only challenge is due to empty seats we only have a 6 person Board, I believe I have three plus me would be 4. I know two of them would sign, the third does not like conflict but is extremely upset about what has been happening so I believe I can get that vote.
AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MaryannS4 on 03/23/2018 9:27 AM
I am the current President, this person is the current Vice President. We are both running for the new Board President with elections coming up in the next 30 days. I do believe I have the support of the majority Board. Many of them are extremely upset about this person's actions. The only challenge is due to empty seats we only have a 6 person Board, I believe I have three plus me would be 4. I know two of them would sign, the third does not like conflict but is extremely upset about what has been happening so I believe I can get that vote.


Respectfully, do you understand that there is a difference between being a director and being an officer of the HOA? Officers are the President, VP, Treasurer and Secretary. A vote of the board majority usually is sufficient to remove an officer. But said officer will remain a lawful director.

Please confirm that you both are running for re-election as directors. Officer positions are typically determined by the board after the election of directors.

If you want to stop the legal hanky panky by this jerk right away, contact the HOA attorney and put him/her under orders to communicate only with you or a board majority until the board works out some things. Explain to the HOA attorney that the HOA will not pay the HOA attorney's bills for communicating with the VP in the future. Give a similar order to the manager.

Also, you spoke about using HOA records to get the contact info of members. Where I am, during campaign season any member may ask for these records and make phone calls to their heart's delight, as long as the recipient of the calls or mailings does not object. At the first objection, the person initiating the communication needs to stop or face a claim of harassment.

Others here at hoatalk.comm will likely chime in by tomorrow.
MaryannS4 (Florida)
Posts: 4
Posted:
Thank you so much for your response. Yes I understand the difference, however we are a small community and have generally simply refer to the Board of Directors as a rule. Currently we would both be Officers, as I am the current President and the other person is Vice President. We are both running for the office of President in this upcoming election. We currently only have a 6 member Board (Officers & Directors) due to open seats. I believe I can get a 4-2 vote in my favor but the other Board Members would be Directors if that matters.

I realize I can ask for Legal Advise from our Attorney, but one of the BIG issues I have with our VP is running up Legal Opinion bills without Board approval. I don't want to turn around and to the same thing so I am trying to do some research on my own first. We do have a Management Company and I asked them. The answer I got is we are not Attorneys, not sure, send me an email and I will request Legal opinion. Considering hiring an attorney personally or getting signed authorization from the other Board members prior to requesting legal opinion.

With respect to HOA records I am referring to using our onsite office, phone and records for campaign phone calls. Our onsite office has personal files of all of our owners, many of them out of state Snowbirds, so this person is able to obtain their personal contact information for telephone calls, and using our office phone to make the calls. I have the most recent phone bill showing a full page of calls, where in previous months there have been none. I am confident this is totally illegal, I just don't know what the punishment or remedy would be to this action. I am short on time because the election is less than 30 days away. I have many owners who now want to vote but have thrown away or misplaced their ballot. I have others who want to change their vote but the management company is saying they can't because it is already received, even though they have not been opened as the count has not yet happened. Many of these people want to vote and/or change due to misleading info they have been given and are very angry. The Management Company has no more ballots or envelopes and is now telling me that the Owners would have to call to request a new packet if they no longer have, or did not receive, the original package. Just a very ugly and frustrating situation.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Maryann

Does your Bylaws allow the members to vote for officers versus directors. Legally, you can't just run elections as you see fit.

Many management companies can offer better legal advise/opinions than lawyers, but in Florida, their hands are legally tied by the same lawyers.

If you are the President, you need to flex your muscles. You should have had a resolution in place that ONLY one Board person would communicate with the attorney. If that person is the VP, someone screwed up.

This person went above and beyond in campaigning. Why didn't you?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Sorry to press this point, Maryann, but do your Bylaws says that owners vote for officers, i.e., president etc.? Or do they just vote for directors? The size of your HOA has nothing to do with that topic, but what size is your HOA, if you don't mind?

If FL statutes are like ours in CA, if the VP uses the office, has access to the personal records and may use the HOA phone, so may you. But WHAT is the law in FL on this topic? You probably will get better ideas, but since you don't want owners to pay for the VP's campaigning, consider this:

Call a special meeting of the Board and,
1. vote to discipline the VP by saying in the motion s/he must cease and desist using HOA resources for her/his campaign.
2, Vote to change the locks on the office if needed.
3, Vote to bill the VP for the calls if you can be sure which ones the VP made.
4, Vote to bill the VP back for legal advice, which should be easy to prove.
5. Vote to instruct the attorney to have no contact with the VP or any other board member but the president. In our HOA, even the president must get voted board approval before contacting our attorney.
6, Finally, the board should vote the VP out of that office--no "cause" is needed.

Your PM probably is right: ballots already submitted may not be revoked--that's CA law too. BUT, the PM should certainly give new ballots, etc to owners who've misplaced them. And these owners must request them, probably in writing. Isn't that info in the letter that accompanies the ballots?

Re: the attorney: Most contracts between a law firm and an HOA only give one Board member the authority to communicate with the attorney. What does yours say, Maryanne?
SueW6 (Michigan)
Posts: 814
Posted:
I hate to throw water on the issue, but you may be hard pressed to prove that a Board member called members USING THE HO PHONE LINE to exclusively encourage people to vote FOR HER. Especially if that phone is used to communicate with members on a regular basis anyway.

Just sayin'

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144
Posted:
Good advice from Richard, Kerry and Sue. I would add that so-called "ballots" submitted in advance may be in reality "proxy forms." The rule on proxies is that, when multiple proxy forms have been submitted, the form with the most recent date is the one that counts. The same rule may apply to ballots.

MaryAnnS4, I think the manager needs to be given some specific, firm orders from a board majority regarding the ballots. That's not dirty play. That's politics. A board majority could order the manager to re-send ballots to all units, saying if anyone wants to change her or his vote, here's a chance to do so. You sound like a rare, ethical person. I am sorry this is happening to you. Count on it: HOAs tend towards ugliness often. Strong-armed play and conflict can be the norm for awhile. Do the right thing and so on, if you have the patience and strength.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Good point by Augie. If Owners have submitted proxies NOT actual ballots, they can change their minds. Even actual ballots might be revocable if your bylaws or FL don't say otherwise.

Maryanne, your PM really should know some of these thing; they aren't all "legal questions."

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