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AnnW (Ohio)
Posts: 29
Posted:
I resigned from our Board a few months ago because of health reasons and discension among board members. I was asked to be on the Board to fill a spot when someone moved & asked to be the Treasurer. I was in the process of implementing changes to better oversee the running of the association. Our complex of 52 units was built in 1973 and has not been well taken care of so assessments for upkeep and reserves are every year. Our funds are limited. We have a dissendent group of owners that feel the board is not following the by laws, which are outdated. Other board members will not listen to them but I was new at all of this and tried to listen and learn. On occasion I agreed with them but could rarely get their point across. One elderly gentleman (wheel chair bound)of the disendent group wrote a registered letter to the President asking for answers to specific questions...concerning finances and adherences to the by laws concerning reserve assessments, etc. Since some of his questions seemed legit, my advice was to respond with records requested in order to alay his fears. Some records were given to him and others were in the hands of CPA so we were planning to supply them when we received them. I also requested a talk with our attorney (who the dissendents do not trust)to be certain we had done things according to law...I was uncertain in some areas. I wrote questions and the attorney answered via email & I asked for clarification in some areas. I took this opportunity to try and convince the president that if our financials were in order, we would not be having this problem! ( I had never seen a bank statement in the year I had been Treasurer or a copy of any bill paid... and much more) While we were still waiting on CPA records that had been promised, another problem came up regarding payment of a past vender...the word was he was placing a lien. By this time I was ill and in trying to solve this problem, my eyes were finally opened to the fact that I had to fight my own board to be certain matters were being handled correctly...and I had my doubts. So just before I was to receive these financial records and then respond to the gentleman owner ( 2 months had passed) I resigned. Poor timing but my health was going down hill and I could not take the lack of trust. After, I wrote the President and pleaded with her to follow through on these financial & the response to the owner....but I received no response. And I understand they did not follow through with the gentlemen.
A few weeks ago this same gentleman hired a good condo attorney and they have made their requests of the Association Board. The Board has hired an attorney to respond...a different and more expensive one. At that time I received an email from the President asking me to supply them with all of my records and to sign a paper that I had not given out any records
to any owners. I answered the email and told the President I had not given anyone anything since my resignation and they would have to give me time to gather things....and I also as sweetly as I could, suggested that possibly we would not have had this added expense, if they had not ignored his previous requests! Upon thinking and talking to others, I have been told no one has ever been required to turn back any records they might have, upon leaving the board or resigning. I would like your opinions if possible. They were never helpful concerning the oversight of the financials...and I am not certain what is behind their request. I am not certain I wish to comply to their request for no real reason other than being contrary. ( Forgot to mention that one of the dissendents was elected to the board this past January ... she was more persistant than I but got nowhere...she also resigned a few weeks after I did. She is not going to comply to their requests. Prior to all of this, I think this board and manager has the best of intentions but they are busy people and have left the management company in charge for the most part, with little oversight... we have had only two open meetings since January...and they wish to run things on their own. These 5 or 6 older, long time owners are very conservative and want things done according to the rules exactly! Other owners are basically not interested until it effects them. Can you help me?
Thank you in advance.

Ann W.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Ann, any official HOA documents which are in your possession need to be returned. Any personal records you received while serving as a member of the Board are your personal property to do with as you wish.
JoeW1 (New York)
Posts: 728
Posted:
AnnW - Make copies of everything you are going to return. Especially since you are in litigation. You may need to prove your basis for making certain decisions.
DaneC (California)
Posts: 210
Posted:
What State are you in?
AnnW (Ohio)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Roger,
Could you be more specific? I have copies of Board minutes which are open to the owners and operating statements also given out at meetings & general legers etc,etc. One of the board members and one of the owners requested copies of the maintenance calls for the year...the management company has their own staff...and we had never seen copies of any work orders...so we all received that.
Would all of that be considered official HOA paperwork. What about signing their documents?
Thank you

Ann W.
AnnW (Ohio)
Posts: 29
Posted:
I am in Ohio. And let me also make clear that one of these dissendents (not the one hiring the attorney)was more knowledgable than all of us put together...and had a software program that was unbelievable. The board was aware that I passed on what little we received in the area of monthly financials and this man kept a spread sheet....and offered to help with the overseeing of the budget but the board did not ever want to hear what he had to say. Most of the records were the same as passed out at open meetings... but we had few of those. I never gave him personal records of owners that I might have had...only financials that he could have requested. I am beginning to be fearful!

Ann W.
DaneC (California)
Posts: 210
Posted:
Route: Ohio Revised Code» TITLE [53] LIII REAL PROPERTY» CHAPTER 5311: CONDOMINIUM PROPERTY
5311.09 Unit owners association records.
(A) (1) The unit owners association shall keep all of the following:
(a) Correct and complete books and records of account that specify the receipts and expenditures relating to the common elements and other common receipts and expenses ;
(b) Records showing the allocation, distribution, and collection of the common profits, losses, and expenses among and from the unit owners;
(c) Minutes of the meetings of the association and the board of directors;
(d) Records of the names and addresses of the unit owners and their respective undivided interests in the common elements.

5311.091 Examination of books, records, minutes.
(A) Except as otherwise prohibited by this section, any member of a unit owners association may examine and copy the books, records, and minutes described in division (A) of section 5311.09 of the Revised Code pursuant to reasonable standards set forth in the declaration, bylaws, or rules the board promulgates, which may include, but are not limited to, standards governing the type of documents that are subject to examination and copying, the times and locations at which those documents may be examined or copied, and the specification of a reasonable fee for copying the documents.

The statute is quite clear, so "The Board has hired an attorney to respond" does not make much sense. It would appear that whatever you gave out, you were entitled to so do.

"I received an email from the President asking me to supply them with all of my records and to sign a paper that I had not given out any records to any owners" and "(I had never seen a bank statement in the year I had been Treasurer or a copy of any bill paid...)"
"Most of the records were the same as passed out at open meetings... but we had few of those. I never gave him personal records of owners that I might have had...only financials that he could have requested." "I am beginning to be fearful!"
From those statements, it is difficult to think of what you could possibly have received?
Obviously, an attempt is being made to lay some sort of blame upon you, and quite frankly, you statement, as TREASURER - "(I had never seen a bank statement in the year I had been Treasurer or a copy of any bill paid...)"
Wow!

RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Ann, general ledgers and other financial statements which you kept as treasurer should not be passed except to Board members when reporting at Board meetings and to owner's when speciif requests are received which you were authorized to give out. Copies of records which were provided to everyone at open meetings are your personal copies for your personal files. Gi8ving monthly financials to the member to put on his spead sheet is not good policy unless the Board knew and cleared it (or at least did not object).
I would presume the management company is the register Agent for your corporation and maintains the HOA's official records.
AnnW (Ohio)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Thank you Dane! Those Items I mentioned were requested for months, and finally after the first registered letter had been sent, my requests were backed with hesitation! But then the ball was dropped, after I resigned. In my limited knowledge, these older residents have some legitimate requests but in the past unfortunately they have muddied the water with minor issues.
So, if I am reading this correctly, all of my records are open to the owners so I do not have to return them. What about personal files I might have regarding collections? Which, by the way, I managed to clear all of the "behindedness" amounting to around $6000 with a little kindness, understanding and a little give and take of late fees. Board was not happy...wanted to set a precedant by taking them to small claims court!
And what about signing whatever their attorney has prepared? Someone said they possibly are laying some blame...was that you? I was thinking that myself. I was only on the board a little over a year...and had no idea what I was getting into ...plus, very little knowledge of a Treasurers responsibility...and as I learned, no backing. The response was: That is why we pay a management company!

Ann W.
AnnW (Ohio)
Posts: 29
Posted:
Roger,
The management company is the register agent and maintains the official
HOA records. It was suggested at the last meeting by some owners that copies of records be stored elsewhere too, just in case. It is difficult for these older owners to go to the management company because they are on the second floor of a small strip center and there is no elevator.
From the moment I joined the board there were issues. The first was all new gutters and downspouts...dissidents felt it required a vote and the Board considered it replacement, without a necessary vote...I abstained as I did not know the answer, although I definitely felt total replacement should be done. A definite gray area in law. Dissident owners felt there were less expensive ways to handle, so with the boards permission, I hired a knowledgable consultant with no axe to grind. His response was if you have or can get the money, it was time, after 36 years BUT if you can't, you could do the two worst buildings amd do the other four over the next two years. The other 4 Board members voted to go forward...and by the way, they are still not done! I think early on I felt we were up against two schools of thought and maybe if the dissidents could see no one was pilfering their hard earned money, it might help, so I asked if they would let me do that...and they agreed, relunctantly. As time went on and other problems came up, I think that seeing those records kept things under control somewhat but then too many other issues...late fees on water bills that we never knew about until one of the dissindents went online and found them...some excuses did not make sense. And on and on....
Your thoughts would be appreciated. What in the world are they thinking...if nothing else, the manager must know I do not have to give these back. And as far as signing their document...I guess it would depend on what it says.

Ann W.
RogerB (Colorado)
Posts: 5,067
Posted:
Ann, once off the Board I would not sign any documents. With all these problems it suggests the Board and the management company may not know or be be doing their jobs.

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