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RichA3 (Arizona)
Posts: 48
Posted:
It is very clear in our little homeowner's By-Laws that a quorum for our annual (or any special association meeting) is that a majority of the unit owners (in our case 9 of 17) be present in person or by proxy. Note: As proxies are not allowed by law in AZ we use absentee ballots. We were unable to hold our annual meeting as we could not meet that quorum requirement. Very hard to meet a quorum requirement as several units (3) have absentee owners & one unit has a renter. There is basically no interest in participating in any capacity with many of the unit owners. Same Board members have served for several years. We are a retirement community in Sun City, AZ. Our management services company rep, our community manager (CM), advised us to try & hold another meeting to see if we could get a quorum. But get this...our CM told us that if we did not again get a quorum our Board of Management, the 3 of us, could unilaterally approve our yearly budget & increase everyone's monthly assessment fee.
The community manager said she had an attorney's word that we could do it based on one line in our CC&Rs which trump anything in our bylaws according to our CM. That line reads, "The Board of Management shall have the right & power to levy monthly assessments against each unit owner". I call this the nuclear option. Basically our CM is telling us that 2 of our 3 Board members (a majority of the Board) could do basically anything we want. I feel damn uncomfortable with ever doing that.
Update: Thank God we barely achieved a quorum at our rescheduled annual association meeting.
Need your valued input as usual.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Rich

Not sure about AZ, but in SC the BOD can raise dues any amount we want to raise them. We do not need owner approval to do such. Owners can call a Special Meeting and if 51% of all owners agree, the dues increase is rescinded. So basically they can only disapprove a dues increase.

We do need owner approval (67%) for a Special Assessment.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Rich

Maybe you should work toward lowering your Quorum requirement. We did. From 50% to 20%.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Board members generally serve until replaced, so if an election can't be held, the existing board is still in place and can continue to do business as usual. This would include setting and approving the budget.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Our bylaws allow members to vote either absentee or by submitting ballots in person at the annual meeting. There is no actual vote taken at the meeting so if we don't get a quorum, the election still counts. I think its a good system if it doesn't contradict your CC&Rs or state law.

I agree that you should be wary about the board increasing the assessments but if the membership is aware it is on the agenda and don't show up, I would take that as consent to allow the board to make the decision, if it is in your CC&Rs.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
We don't need Owner approval of our budget in CA unless the annual increase is over 20%. so your CC&R is not unusual.

Don't absentee ballots count towards quorum in AZ? They do in CA. We have about 30% absentee Owners (mainly landlords), and they do vote.

In our HOA of 200+ condos, only about 25 owners are physically present at our annual meetings UNLESS there's a competitive race for director slots.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Rich,

As others have said, you may want to attempt to amend the governing documents to reduce the quorum (ours is 10%). This doesn't change the numbers needed for specific votes, it simply allows you to hold meetings and get normal business done.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 02/22/2018 2:12 PM
Rich,

As others have said, you may want to attempt to amend the governing documents to reduce the quorum (ours is 10%). This doesn't change the numbers needed for specific votes, it simply allows you to hold meetings and get normal business done.

Tim

When we changed from 50% to 20% for a Quorum we to get 67% for the Covenant change. Our most difficult part was explaining it was for Quorum only. Any need votes for other items (Covenant changes, Bylaw changes, Special Assessment approval, etc.) stayed the same. We had to go over and over and over and over this before the vote. We got is squeaked by.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
In Florida, absent restrictions in the gov docs, an HOA board can raise annual assessments as it sees fit with no percentage cap or owner approval required. The same goes for special assessments.

In theory, a small group could gain control of the board, triple the assessments to drive people out, buy up those homes at a steep discount, drop assessments back down to earth, re-sell the homes and realize a hefty profit. I'm surprised it doesn't happen more often.
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Hi you had said in previous discussion in sc, if no quorum you can adjourn to later date then you will need 25% still no quorum third time 1/2 of 1/2. May I ask where you found this so we may present to owners in hoa non profit Sc.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoniL on 02/27/2018 5:47 PM
Hi you had said in previous discussion in sc, if no quorum you can adjourn to later date then you will need 25% still no quorum third time 1/2 of 1/2. May I ask where you found this so we may present to owners in hoa non profit Sc.

Such options are normally found within the Covenants or Bylaws.
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Thank you Timb4 I wish we had such options. I do not see in Master Seed or bylaws. Guess it comes down to lawyer up. BOD does not help with even trying get quorum then we just may have day in how things are run. I will check again in those documents.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JoniL on 02/27/2018 5:47 PM
Hi you had said in previous discussion in sc, if no quorum you can adjourn to later date then you will need 25% still no quorum third time 1/2 of 1/2. May I ask where you found this so we may present to owners in hoa non profit Sc.

In our Bylaws it is called Adjournment of Meetings. Basically says if we cannot reach Quorum, a majority of the Voting Members in attendance may adjourn the meeting to a time not less then nor more then 30 days from that day...

In my last SC HOA there was an additional statement that said Quorum requirement for the reconvened meeting was reduced by 50% and by 50% more if another Adjournment. We went from needing 350 (59% of 700) 175, to 88 before we could have the meeting. Meaning it required 3 meetings.

My present HOA Bylaws say no such thing so in this SC HOA, we could not do it like we did in my prior SC HOA. Just shows docs can vary even within a state.

PS

We originally had a Quorum requirement of 50% but we changed it to 20% and we have met Quorum since.
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Johnc46 I just happen to read in our bylaws. I am looking to find something that will help lower percentage of annual meeting as you were able to.This is from by laws Of any member meetings cannot be organized because a quorum has not been attended or because greater percentage of the membership required to constitute a quoting particular purposes has not attended wherever the latter percentage of attendance maybe required as set forth in Articles of Incorporation these bylaws or the master deed.The members who are present either in person or by proxy may adjourn the meeting from time to time until a quorum or the required percentage of attendance of greater than a quorum is present. Master says 2/3 for special meetings. Also the 51% of valued property of entire membership. Now is there any hope in heaven for us to adjorn meeting and possible have a lesser percentage of as you said proxy can be held for eleven months so if they BOD will let us adjorn meeting could use existing proxy. Documents do state only to be used for that specific annual meeting ? I do I am grasping at straws just trying to weed thru the tape. Thanks for listening If any advice willing to listen

JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Excuse the typos
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
My apologies again amending required two thirds of valued property owners
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Jonil

To change from a 50% to a 20% Quorum was a Bylaw change thus requiring 51% of all owners to approve.

There is a major difference between 50% of a Quorum versus 50% of all owners. Covenant and Bylaw changes typically call for a % of all owners approving.

Some Bylaws allow for adjourning a meeting and Quorum requirements get lower (typically 50%) for the reconvened meeting> This has nothing to do with needing a specific % of all owners approving a Covenant/Bylaw change.

A % of all owners is not the same thing as the % of a Quorum. With 200 owners one can have a Quorum requiring 20% with 40 owners. A Covenant/Blaw change requiring 51% approval still needs 101 of the 200 owners approving. It is not 51% of the 40 but 51% of the 200.

Many confuse this.

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 02/22/2018 4:58 AM
Rich

Maybe you should work toward lowering your Quorum requirement. We did. From 50% to 20%.


States can have statutes regulating. Potentially AZ notes a minimum of 25% for quorum unless bylaws provide otherwise for meetings other that BOD. BOD meetings unless otherwise specified require at least 50%:

33-1249. Quorums; applicability

A. Unless the bylaws provide otherwise, a quorum is present throughout any meeting of the association if persons entitled to cast at least twenty-five per cent of the votes in the association are present in person or by proxy at the beginning of the meeting.

B. Unless the bylaws specify a larger percentage, a quorum is deemed present throughout any meeting of the board of directors if persons entitled to cast at least fifty per cent of the votes on that board are present at the beginning of the meeting.

C. This section does not apply to timeshare plans or associations that are subject to chapter 20 of this title.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
In SC, State Statues call for 10% of owners being a Quorum. Pretty low is you ask me.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
In case Janet's "B" confuses some, it refers only to board meetings and board members/directors. It does not refer to meeting of the members/homeowners.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JohnC46 on 03/09/2018 3:49 AM
In SC, State Statues call for 10% of owners being a Quorum. Pretty low is you ask me.

I would agree that is too low. When individuals purchase they agree per the current contract and any such contract should be difficult for those owners to change without having a larger number of participants at meetings. When it is too low I have seen where new residents want all these new rules and changes after purchasing and then try to railroad the owners who have lived there for a long time.

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