How many votes needed and who counts?

Started by GlenM3 • 17 replies • 1061 views

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GlenM3 (Tennessee)
Posts: 5

Posted:

I was trying to figure out if the hoa needs 2/3 of all members or just 2/3 of just the members that show up to the meeting? The way I see it is 2/3 that are at the meeting , I say this just cause why else would they put "in a meeting" . Any help would be great attached image of the bylaw and deleceration

Thanks

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RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

2/3 yes votes of the Voting Power or if you had 100 units in good standing, then 67 yes votes.

CCRs, because they are attached to the property, have to more difficult to change.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

It is typically 2/3rds of ALL owners not who shows up. However, there is a loophole your lawyer can help you with. In our HOA it was a requirement changes to the CC&R's and Articles of Incorporation had to happen at a meeting. Of course that is basically impossible unless promising pitchforks and burning at stakes...

Here is what we did. Our Lawyer drafted a document that one agrees to give up their "right" to attend a meeting to cast their vote. This basically frees the HOA up to go door to door to collect signatures. By signing BOTH the vote AND take vote without a meeting, you can gather signatures on your time/accurate.

This is how we were able to get our votes needed but it took several years.

Former HOA President

GlenM3 (Tennessee)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Thanks for quick reply, so as it is now if only 10 of 100 members show up to vote it won't matter. Need at least 67 members to show up and vote yes.

Which is nearly impossable. I don't think we even have an area to support 67 people. Haha.

Anyhow thanks again.
Glen

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Again, CCRs are written in such a way that makes it VERY difficult to amend.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Plus remember you have to FILE these changes at the courthouse. That is a charge. So this can take a few thousand dollars for the whole process. Considering legal costs, drafting, distributing, and filing fees. It's not a simple vote and it's done. The whole process and number needed to pass is all in your CC&R's and Articles. Which may have different #'s in regards to required vote.

Encourage you to go to a lawyer but NOT a Real Estate one. One that deals with contracts/corporate laws. HOA specialty if you can afford it.

Former HOA President

BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273

Posted:

I think it makes sense. You buy your home agreeing to the CC&Rs. It is a contract between you and your neighbors. Why should a minority be able to change that contract?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/30/2018 4:08 PM
Plus remember you have to FILE these changes at the courthouse. That is a charge. So this can take a few thousand dollars for the whole process. Considering legal costs, drafting, distributing, and filing fees. It's not a simple vote and it's done. The whole process and number needed to pass is all in your CC&R's and Articles. Which may have different #'s in regards to required vote.

Encourage you to go to a lawyer but NOT a Real Estate one. One that deals with contracts/corporate laws. HOA specialty if you can afford it.

I would rather have a law firm familiar with the laws in the state as they pertain to HOA;'s and Condos. While they are corporations, they are a unique type of corporation. Sorry, from my expereince, contract or corporation guys, or gals, don't cut it.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Not everyone can afford a HOA specialist. So if you can not then choose a general/contract lawyer. A Real Estate lawyer is NOT the way to go. Your not dealing with Real Estate.

Former HOA President

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/30/2018 4:55 PM
Not everyone can afford a HOA specialist. So if you can not then choose a general/contract lawyer. A Real Estate lawyer is NOT the way to go. Your not dealing with Real Estate.

SO, you would rather find a cheap general/contract attorney unfamiliar with HOA laws. That is about the best advice you have given. You really think an "HOA Specialist" is that expensive?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Dude the Sky isn't blue. Argue with that since you keep doing that with everything else I type. So done.

Former HOA President

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/30/2018 5:28 PM
Dude the Sky isn't blue. Argue with that since you keep doing that with everything else I type. So done.

That is my opinion based on experience and having worked in a law firm. BUT, maybe, you will have someone agree with you.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

We are here to give advice based on our experiences NOT argue with every little detail put down. Geez can't give one bit of advice on here anymore without the Great Richard arguing with everyone. It's annoying now. Sorry to hijack the site but need to just stop the non-stop arguments. We are here to help people NOT tear them down.

BTW: I would not hire a Real Estate Attorney cause you are NOT dealing with Real Estate in a HOA. They deal with different issues like finding out if the house has a lien on it. Not enforcing rules.

I suggest a general attorney for initial advice and they can handle most things a HOA needs. It's not that complicated when it comes to filing the Document changes. The complicated part is getting the votes and drafting the right changes in the documents.

Former HOA President

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/30/2018 5:39 PM
We are here to give advice based on our experiences NOT argue with every little detail put down. Geez can't give one bit of advice on here anymore without the Great Richard arguing with everyone. It's annoying now. Sorry to hijack the site but need to just stop the non-stop arguments. We are here to help people NOT tear them down.

BTW: I would not hire a Real Estate Attorney cause you are NOT dealing with Real Estate in a HOA. They deal with different issues like finding out if the house has a lien on it. Not enforcing rules.

I suggest a general attorney for initial advice and they can handle most things a HOA needs. It's not that complicated when it comes to filing the Document changes. The complicated part is getting the votes and drafting the right changes in the documents.

I am not arguing, I am giving advice based on professional experience, which is more than can be said of you.

Again, sorry to hijack the conversation.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

And HOA's are NOT professional. They are communal and made up of the regular joe Smo.

I am sure you also let the lawyer tell you "I will do whatever you tell me to do" and agree... Ignorance is bliss on that statement from a high paid lawyer...

Former HOA President

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By MelissaP1 on 01/31/2018 5:11 AM
And HOA's are NOT professional. They are communal and made up of the regular joe Smo.

I am sure you also let the lawyer tell you "I will do whatever you tell me to do" and agree... Ignorance is bliss on that statement from a high paid lawyer...

Sorry Melissa, I am a PROFESSIONAL and no Melissa, unlike others, I don't take jack from any attorney.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Sorry, Glen, that I don't have time to read your docs. But here is one question: do your governing docs count mail-in ballots as present at the meeting? Or does, perhaps,s TN law?

You're right, it's very difficult to get 67% of the members to approve CC&R changes.

Your bylaws or maybe TN state laws will tell you who holds and tabulates the ballots. Many states have inspectors of election, but I don't know about TN

If you do need an attorney, I too, advise an HOA attorney. I don't think they're any more expensive than a "general" lawyer and will be much more familiar with governing documents and state law about HOAs than a general lawyer.

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

Getting 67% affirmative votes is not that difficult. I have done it in 5 complexes without failing once. 2 were for amendments to CCRs, two were complete governing docs and one just for Bylaws.

The largest community was the one I lived in. it contains 317 units and we got 80% affirmative votes and only needed a majority.

If you think just sending ballots outs is going to cut it, you are sadly mistaken. A political candidate running for some office can't just can't get their name on the ballot and expect they will be elected. It takes leadership and someone willing to take the reins to see it through the finish line.

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