Identify HOA Property Lines

Started by AnnetteM • 9 replies • 936 views

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AnnetteM (Maryland)
Posts: 9

Posted:

I'm an HOA board member for a 48 lot, single family community in Maryland. The developer served as the previous HOA Board and turned it over to us about 2 yrs ago. The developer is still under bond because our community hasn't been completed and turned over to the county yet. I've tried repeatedly to get in touch with them, but they never answer calls or e-mails. They are geographically separated (VA) and have no interest in future developments in MD. Not sure it's proper to say this, or even possible, but I honestly think we've been abandoned and they are not going to complete the 3 page punch list the county has on record.
They were supposed to complete everything no later than 28 Oct 16, but requested an extension from the county through 30 Jun 18. We (the new HOA) weren't aware of the request for, or granting of, the extension.

Reason this comes us is because we are in the midst of a situation in which a tree fell on a homeowner's lot. The lot backs up to a bufferyard that separates our community from another community. But, there are no clear boundary markings. In reviewing plats and physically looking at the area in question, none of us (3 of 5 board members and our management agent) feel as though the tree is on our (HOA) property, but it is a very close call. We're not surveyors and have no experience in reading / interpreting plats.

We're hesitant to hire a surveyor because we're trying to ensure we're being good stewards of all homeowner's funding.

Our management agent suggested we deny the homeowner's request to fund repairs and clean-up based upon our review concluding the area is not in a "common area". He also stated that the home owner has the burden of proof in MD anyways. I haven't found that in writing anywhere.

Just curious what opinions any of you might have or any advice you can pass on. Should the developer have clearly identified the property lines? Should we just hire a surveyor? We don't have a whole lot of wiggle room in our budget. I'm fearful we would have to get a cadastral land survey which might be very expensive.

Any thoughts you anyone has would be greatly appreciated.
Annette

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I had a similar thing happen to me on my last week as President. This is an insurance thing. The HOA may be on the hook for just the clean up of the debris which is probably cheaper than your insurance deductible. The homeowner needs to call their insurance. Their insurance will contact the HOA insurance if need be to determine who gets the claim. If the tree was rotten and the HOA did not take care of it/given notice of it's condition, then the claim could go on the HOA's insurance. If the tree was hit by lightening (natural causes) then the claim goes on the Homeowner's insurance.

Don't let the homeowner bully and put the whole claim on the HOA. It's not necessarily something the HOA covers. If they aren't going to their insurance or have no insurance, this should raise some red flags. There is no reason why they should not have contacted their insurance company. Ask them for their insurance information and give it to your insurance company. (Not vice-versa).

In our case, the tree had pine beetle disease. The common area is whatever is around the house and lot it sits on. The tree was on the border but on our side. It fell across the neighbor's yard/house across a fence into the neighbor's dining room. It turns out the owner did not have insurance the yard the tree was in. The owner with dining room damage insurance had to cover it. The fence was NOT the HOA's responsibility because we just APPROVE fences. We do not put them up or pay for them. We just ended up cleaning up the tree debris on the common property but let the homeowner's insurance battle it out.

My current house just had a tree fall on a neighbor's house. Did damage his roof and took out my fence. The insurance put the claim on my insurance as it was a rotten tree. However, I personally did not pay out a dime. It was all covered.

Former HOA President

AnnetteM (Maryland)
Posts: 9

Posted:

MelissaP1,

Thank you SO much for your quick reply. It is very helpful and will no doubt be useful for us in proceeding forward.

Not sure if I mentioned it in my initial summation, but we (the HOA) were not aware of the condition of the tree prior to the incident. Believe strong winds toppled it over.

We are all questioning why the owner has not contacted their insurance company as well. To be honest, though, we're not entirely sure she "hasn't" contacted them,either. In any case, thanks for the advice on how to proceed through insurance channels.

Very sorry to hear about your damage, but happy to hear you didn't have to pay anything out of pocket. Not even your deductible?

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Ironic enough, me and my neighbor shared the same insurance and agent. Considering me and him were mortal enemies. He has since sold his house. I still have another tree to take down due to it's condition.

I think in HOA's people think that the HOA's insurance kicks in over their own insurance. That is why many owners go straight to the HOA to make their claims instead of their own insurance. They think the HOA is responsible. Which it could be but NOT until they go to their own insurance company.

In our HOA's case, we were aware of the pine beetle infestation. I had gotten bids and letters of concern from the owners with the border trees. We just did not have the money without a special assessment to take the trees down. They were going to be several thousands of dollars per tree. Plus some ran along the border between the two neighborhoods. There was some debate on responsibility as well. Was the HOA responsible as it was on common property or owner? Our line was if you planted the tree, then your responsible. Hence why you had to get permissions to plant trees.

Now since the owner had never notified the HOA the tree's condition, then the HOA may not be on the hook. If the HOA was aware and did not take action to remove a rotten tree, then the claim may be on the HOA. Either way, the insurance has to determine it.

Former HOA President

AnnetteM (Maryland)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Thank you for the additional info.

In our case, the trees existed prior to the community. In other words,
neither the developer or the home owner planted them.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Our trees are the same thing along the border. We did not plant them. The Developer just basically left them when they developed the land like 30 years ago. So they are in no man's land. However, we did inherit the maintenance of them.

Be careful about getting evaluations on these trees. It can come across the HOA knows there is an issue. Plus the expense and need for a special assessment may be too great. It's best to keep this on an individual basis and address those who have valid concerns.

Former HOA President

AnnetteM (Maryland)
Posts: 9

Posted:

Thank you, again, for all the great advice.
Very much appreciated.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By AnnetteM on 01/28/2018 5:05 PM
Should the developer have clearly identified the property lines? Should we just hire a surveyor? We don't have a whole lot of wiggle room in our budget. I'm fearful we would have to get a cadastral land survey which might be very expensive.

I'm not sure how the developer would have identified the property lines, other than possibly a fence, and even then they are often not exactly on the survey lines. Surveyors often drive a metal rod (rebar) at corners, and sometimes cap them with a plastic cap. These are usually sunk a couple of inches so a metal detector would be the best way to find them. If the lines are straight, you can just run a string between the markers. If the lines are curved, then you'd need to interpret curve tables on the plat, which is somewhat more involved.

I would go with the MC advice. If the HO files a claim with their insurance, then that company might contact the association insurer to hash it out.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

Even if the tree was on association property, the Association would be responsible for clean up and removal to the individuals lot line and the individual would be responsible for clean up and repairs from the lot line inward.

This is based on the expectation that the Association was not warned that the tree was dead or diseased. If this were the case and the Association did nothing prior to the fall, then the Association would have to pay for everything due to negligence.

You might want to contact the County and ask who owns that property.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059

Posted:

By the way, here is another article on trees:

If a Tree Falls in Maryland, Who is Responsible? 2014 article

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