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Started by ConchoP • 26 replies • 1335 views

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ConchoP (Texas)
Posts: 208
Posted:
Please, I need interpretation of this section of Texas Property Code 209.00591(c)

Sec. 209.00591. BOARD MEMBERSHIP.

(c) The declaration may provide for a period of declarant control of the association during which a declarant, or persons designated by the declarant, may appoint and remove board members and the officers of the association, other than board members or officers elected by members of the property owners' association. Regardless of the period of declarant control provided by the declaration, on or before the 120th day after the date 75 percent of the lots that may be created and made subject to the declaration are conveyed to owners other than a declarant or a builder in the business of constructing homes who purchased the lots from the declarant for the purpose of selling completed homes built on the lots, at least one-third of the board members must be elected by owners other than the declarant. If the declaration does not include the number of lots that may be created and made subject to the declaration, at least one-third of the board members must be elected by owners other than the declarant not later than the 10th anniversary of the date the declaration was recorded.

We are a phased community, the developer does not have a number of lots stated in the CCR or Bylaws. The CCR is dated April 2008. Our Bylaws call for 5 board members. Due to a mixture of clusters..... we have not yet been able to vote in a board, and the developer has 3 votes to homeowners one. Our elections are slated for February.

If I am interpreting this section correctly. Because the developer (the declarant) does not have the number of lots stated in the CCR and the date of the CCR;
he can only vote for 3 board members and homeowners can vote in 2. Am I understanding this correctly?
PaiN
Posts: 73
Posted:
no

while the developer is 'in control' because of no. of lots (25%+ owned) he can appoint BOD members as he chooses w/o holding an election UNLESS they were elected by the 'membership at large'

after he 'loses control' he STILL has 3 votes to 1 for each lot still owned

he 'loses' control also after 10 years UNLESS the declaration specifies the no. of lots incl. therein

he can ALWAYS vote his votes

y'all are screwed until he leaves
ConchoP (Texas)
Posts: 208
Posted:
Yes, we was to appoint board members by Feb. 2016, that was never done. So as I understand from the lawyer at that time it was up to the homeowners to have an election to get an HOA going. We understood the fact that he will always out vote us because there is no way every homeowner will vote.

It says.. if the declaration does not include the number of lots that my be created, at least one-third of the board members must be elected by owners other than the declarant not later than the 10th anniversary of the date the declaration was recorded. I understand it as the 75% would not pertain to us because he doesn't state how many homes will be created. So even though he out votes us, he can only vote in 3 board members.
PaiN
Posts: 73
Posted:
you may be correct

BUT

it makes NO DIFFERENCE as he will control 3 out of 5

ps.

..... elected by owners other than the declarant not later than the 10th anniversary of the date the declaration was recorded. .....


I believe that is a misquote, s/b AFTER 10 years etc.
ConchoP (Texas)
Posts: 208
Posted:
I understand, but that's all we got so it's better than nothing.

I agree it must be a typeo or something, I copied it straight from the source.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Concho

Accept the fact that you are under declarant control and well could be for a lengthy time. Many large scale developers just keep adding sections as they go thus maintaining control over some HOA's for as long as 20 to 30 years. Often in a large development it is better they run it then let the inmates run the asylum.

What is is you do not like about how your HOA is operated? Please simplify in as few a words as possible.
ConchoP (Texas)
Posts: 208
Posted:
JohnC46

I'm just asking for an interpretation of Texas Property Code 209.00591(c) nothing more, I don't need to constantly be reminding of what I already know.
I know we are out voted for the Century. I know the developer runs the show, I"m just looking for help understanding this sentence that seems to be worded strangely.

Especially this section: If the declaration does not include the number of lots that may be created and made subject to the declaration, at least one-third of the board members must be elected by owners other than the declarant not later than the 10th anniversary of the date the declaration was recorded.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Concho

(c) The declaration may provide for a period of declarant control of the association during which a declarant, or persons designated by the declarant, may appoint and remove board members and the officers of the association, other than board members or officers elected by members of the property owners' association. Regardless of the period of declarant control provided by the declaration, on or before the 120th day after the date 75 percent of the lots that may be created and made subject to the declaration are conveyed to owners other than a declarant or a builder in the business of constructing homes who purchased the lots from the declarant for the purpose of selling completed homes built on the lots, at least one-third of the board members must be elected by owners other than the declarant. If the declaration does not include the number of lots that may be created and made subject to the declaration, at least one-third of the board members must be elected by owners other than the declarant not later than the 10th anniversary of the date the declaration was recorded.

I believe the above is fairly simple and basically says:

1) If the amount of lots is listed in the Covenants then within 120 days of 75% being sold, one third of the BOD Members must be elected by the owners. This says no specific date but just when it happens,

2. If the amount of lots is NOT listed in the Covenants then no later then the 10th anniversary of the date the Covenants were recorded, one third of the BOD Members must be elected by the owners. This is a specific date no matter how many homes planned or sold.

I say you fall under #2 and it will have to happen in 2018 based you saying the Covenants were filed in 2008.

You say you have a BOD of five but most Bylaws will say a BOD of 3 to 9. Were I the Declarant I would want a BOD of 9 thus 3 (1/3) are elected by the owners and I get to appoint the other 6 like my son, my wife, etc. Guess who controls?

ConchoP (Texas)
Posts: 208
Posted:
thank you john I appreciate the explanation. Even though he will be in control with his people at least 2 homeowners will be on the board.

Even boards who are not under developer control still are over zealous and corrupt,but this is the hand we have to play.

Thank you.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
So all HOA boards are corrupt? I take offense to that. You can never have an above board board if you only want to call them corrupt or crooked. Our HOA ran openly and by the rules. I brought the rules to each meeting! If someone asked a question, I would reference the rules before answering. We held our meetings OPENLY and announced. If you wanted to know something, you just asked at the meeting or via a letter that we read at a meeting.

So before you go and label ALL HOA's are crooked and corrupt you had best know you get what you put out. A HOA is only a reflection of it's members. If you don't like the reflection don't blame the mirror....
Former HOA President
ConchoP (Texas)
Posts: 208
Posted:
MellisaP1 Thank you for pointing that out..yes it is not ALL boards are corrupt. I think it was a simple grammar error when typing the sentence. I shall be more careful of my witting in the future.
PaiN
Posts: 73
Posted:
aaaaah

another has succumbed to the wrath of lady M

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaiN on 01/03/2018 7:43 AM
aaaaah

another has succumbed to the wrath of lady M


LOL. It's the "Former HOA President" in her sig line that does it!
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasM6 on 01/03/2018 9:37 AM
Posted By PaiN on 01/03/2018 7:43 AM
aaaaah

another has succumbed to the wrath of lady M



LOL. It's the "Former HOA President" in her sig line that does it!

I've been meaning to add "former boy scout patrol leader" to my sig but haven't had a chance yet.
Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Melissa not all of us are so lucky to have Hoa as you are disscribing. I am in South Carolina where we are basically having tug of war with Rogue Boards, management companies mismanagement so we believe. We are not privy to anything where our monies are being spent. Closed meetings but they are going on with business as if owners do not matter.We have not had quorum since 2004 before the other phases were finished. Membership list unknown, BOD will not help with a quorum they do not want us to have a say. You just pay fees and pray they do not raise them. Most are investors who only care to make money not about residents who live here.Rentals not knowing How or that we have no pets to renters.I could go on.I am glad for your homeowners and transparency.Annual meeting coming up already know they will say we have no quorum, same BOD's will go on for get another term which is one year but with no quorum and they no we have none. BOD this time total 5years they just keep appointing who they want and strong arming members who want to fill seats. Keep up the great work Melissa and send prayers this way.
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Melissa now all that I have said which I meant to you. You go and say HOA boards reflection of members? So WRONG Please explain how you feel that statement is accurate in any level. We are here trying to achieve what you have or had?
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Well the fact the board is elected by the membership to represent them for the daily business of the HOA... Your board reflects what you elected. If you don't run for a position on the board, then you get what you vote for. If you didn't vote for anybody, it still reflect what the majority of other members who voted wanted.

My HOA was a nightmare when I joined. The problems were just as bad as any other HOA. The difference is that I took action and had support from those who believed I could best represent them. Didn't just see the problems. I worked on getting answers in solving them.

So if your HOA isn't reflecting what you want, then it means your standing in front of a window.
Former HOA President
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MelissaP1 on 03/01/2018 3:21 PM
Well the fact the board is elected by the membership to represent them for the daily business of the HOA... Your board reflects what you elected. If you don't run for a position on the board, then you get what you vote for. If you didn't vote for anybody, it still reflect what the majority of other members who voted wanted.

My HOA was a nightmare when I joined. The problems were just as bad as any other HOA. The difference is that I took action and had support from those who believed I could best represent them. Didn't just see the problems. I worked on getting answers in solving them.

So if your HOA isn't reflecting what you want, then it means your standing in front of a window.

Mel is right.
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Me Melissa Yes your point makes very good sense. In the other hand Out board has been appointing themselves since 2004 because we have had no quorum since 2004 maybe the other person has had same problems. So before you speak get all details first please. There is no recourse for us but lawsuit clear out the lot of them start over. We are blind pay money and pray. We were awarded monies in lawsuit it is gone do not know where. They keep raising fees. Investors do not care we have major out of state owners that do not care. Now please have great day and please ask her the facts before you slam someone who may need help your information is vital to others.Do not judge .
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
My apologies for typos. Ms Melissa maybe when smoke clears you can give me some advice on how to rally troops to get something done. Did I mention they BOD refuse to appoint women to the board.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Who is slamming you? Facts are facts. You participate in your HOA or you don't. It's your own feelings of inadequacy that makes you take or not take action. If you feel someone is judging you, then it's you who is doing the judging. Remember this: What you think of you isn't what others think of you. So why do you care?

My advice is to stop worrying about perception and focus on reality. The reality is that if your HOA was awarded lawsuit money, it most likely went to the lawyers and to cover expenses. Court can only make one "whole". So the money the HOA sued for could only be what it expended unless there was a punitive case involved.

Just little details like that makes a difference on what is reality and what is used for "judging" your HOA. Did you think about that? You will if you ever get on the board.
Former HOA President
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Ms Melissa The only thing left to say because either I am not explaining correctly or you are not resceptive. We can agree you will defend BOD and I will defend homeowners. Have a great day.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Considering the BOD ARE Homeowners... I guess I will... Did you think the HOA was going to get a "winfall" from that lawsuit? Where did you think that money was going to go? It was NOT going back into any homeowner's pockets that's for sure. It was going to pay off the legal bills and cover the "damages" of whatever caused the lawsuit.

You keep attacking the BOD as if they are some kind of conspiracy ring. They are HOMEOWNERS just like everyone else IF the HOA is no longer under developer control. They are your neighbors. You are ALL living in the same bedroom community. So I'd recommend stop farting in the bed... Everyone will get pink eye...
Former HOA President
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
Excuse me! The lawsuit I mentioned was for buildings that brought the lawsuit which was right not 19. No st was used for all 19 buildings and the reason for lawsuit was not taken care of. We waited 10 years for this and to repair the damage the water damage. We did not receive repairs for the eight buildings that brought the lawsuit. You are like a smoker that has stopped smoking and then wants to preach to everyone else. Just because you were a president does not mean a darn thing to me. You may be in bed with your community I prefer to keep them neighbors. You may know some but not all. I would not ask your advice on anything.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
You have problems and ain't nobody going to be able to solve them except for you. Otherwise keep wallowing in them. Lawsuits ONLY make you Whole. So it sounds like the money if any won in a lawsuit went to fill that in. It ain't going to anyone's pockets in the HOA...
Former HOA President
JoniL (South Carolina)
Posts: 47
Posted:
1.6 million was the amount of money may have been won as you say. Was brought by eight buildings that were not taken care of but all nineteen. Yes this is called mismanagement of funds. Now since you have to have last word Have at it. Concede already we are not talking your Alabama former President hoopla.Not all of us can live in la la land where all is so look perfect as you say.
MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836
Posted:
Darling... Look how you are addressing me simply by my phrase "Former HOA President". Do you treat your board with the same attitude? I am trying to explain to you that you make the bed you lay in. My HOA was a huge nightmare when I took over. The President was a con-artist. The place a mess. Houses and property was looking bad. Homes took months to sell. No one was interested in being on the board. So much so we had to lower the number of members on the board down to 5 with 3 office positions. My last year in office ALL my board members moved/quit except for the Vice-President who was Protesting by not paying dues! So honey... Most of us have been in "Bad HOA's" and made them better.

BTW: Suing your HOA is suing yourself and your neighbors. The court can ONLY make one "Whole" in a lawsuit. So if your HOA "Won" this money for lack of maintenance/upkeep of these buildings... It means that money went to the repair/maintenance costs the HOA incurred during the suit process. Plus the legal fees it took to bring the lawsuits.

Your still lacking any kind of details to make a full opinion of what really is going on. Don't see you offering to improve things over to complain. I became involved in my HOA because I am not a complainer but an action taker. Did not like what was going on and neither did a group of my neighbors. So they elected me onto the board. Once there, I took corrective actions and LEARNED the rules of my HOA. Knew them backwards and forwards. Brought the rules to each and every meeting. Referred to them when questioned or needed to write a violation.

Was it "La-la land"? NO! It was HARD WORK and dedication to the betterment of my HOA. Which is NOT about me. It's about the WHOLE. I can only fascillitate what my membership wanted. Otherwise, I am in my HOA's way.

So maybe look at your own issues because you have proven yourself to be someone who wants to attack those who try to show you other views. I don't deserve being told that I don't live in the real world nor anyone else in here. I lived the real world and ran it. It just so happened it was somewhat successfully. So going to pass along that success to others if it will help them.
Former HOA President

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