HOA Emergency Call out bill

Started by ArtM1 • 15 replies • 1104 views

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ArtM1 (California)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Hello,

I own a condo that is rented out in the LA area. A few weeks ago I woke up to an email from our HOA management, notifying me that overnight my water heater had leaked and caused damage to the unit next door. The HOA management called a plumber in the middle of the night to shut the water off. The morning I was notified I called my own plumber and changed out my water heater which is located on the roof. The total for a new water heater and disposal of the old one came out to $1,200. Which I am fine paying, but today I receieved an email from the HOA management company billing me $625.00 for the emergency plumber fee. I called my plumber and several others and found out that the standard call out fee for the same service would be anywhere from $250-$350. I think this plumber is charging way to much.

I don't have an issue paying for a fair invoice but this to me looks like a rip off.

What are my options? I have emailed the HOA management with my concern. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Thank you

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

I would ask for a copy of the invoice the plumber gave them. Make sure what you think they did is what they did. It could be they did more than just shut off the water. Considering there was damage being done.

The thing is that your bill dispute with the MC is really the MC's bill dispute with the plumber. The reason being that the MC was the customer. Albeit on your behalf. You have either an MC who hires "exclusive" contractors or they got ripped off.

Former HOA President

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Contact the Board and let them know that you are certainly willing to pay the bill but believe the bill is unreasonable. Then provide the written estimates from other companies for the same charge (on a similar day and time, i.e. Sun at midnight).

Then see what the Board says.

ArtM1 (California)
Posts: 4

Posted:

Thank you for the input.

I did receive an invoice pdf of what the plumber did. When I called other plumbers I described in detail the job discription and that’s when they told me it would cost $250-$350.

I will have these plumbers give me a written estimate and I’ll forward them to the HOA management. The only problem is that dealing with this management company is an uphill and very difficult and slow process.

I have a feeling that in the end they will just tell me that they can’t do anything about the amount and that I have no choice but to pay it. Since this is my first time dealing with this type of issue. What options do I have if I don’t pay the bill?

Thank you.

MelissaP1 (Alabama)
Posts: 13,836

Posted:

Well they can place a lien for that amount you owe them. Court would consider the bill "Damages" which is collectible via court. You may want to discuss this with the Board. They may not know that the MC is charging or using contractors who charge this much money.

Example: We have a pet rescue place in town. If you adopt a dog/cat from them, you have to pay them $150 - $200 adoption fee. You also have to promise to use their vet. If you do not use their vet, then they will take the pet back and NOT give the adoption fees back. Here's the rub. That vet is one of the most expensive vets in the area.

This is a bit of a corrupt business practice if you ask me. Your HOA may not be aware how your MC is doing business. It may be time for a change or a new search for an MC if not comfortable with their business practices.

Not saying this is happening here. It's just indicative when you get such a large bill that something deeper is going on with someone's business practice. It could be the plumber for all we know.

Former HOA President

ArtM1 (California)
Posts: 4

Posted:

I agree, I’ll exercise my options and deal with it civilly. Would you recommend I contact the plumber that did the call out and see if they would lower the amount due?

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ArtM1 on 12/19/2017 7:25 PM

Would you recommend I contact the plumber that did the call out and see if they would lower the amount due?

No.

You were not their client.
The Association was their client.
That would be the Associations responsibility.

Keep in mind that what you are being charged may include fees for the plumber and fees for the MC.
You don't know who is charging what until you request and receive an itemized bill.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Take Tim's first advice, Art. Contact your board of directors via your PM to inquire if you can meet with them to discuss what seems to be a bill that's too high. Your PM must forward any written requests of yours to the Board.

I do think that in CA, the HOA cannot assess you for this bill unless they hear your side of the story first at a formal properly conducted owner discipline hearing. Do you even live in the area?

RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868

Posted:

A management company is responsible for handling these type of emergency. especially in the middle of the night and no one is sure whose responsible. We may get a call at 3 AM for an emergency and we have a list of vendors for that HOA and we call and then worry who pays later. It is possible that the MC owns a maintenance company or handyman service, which is not uncommon if they manage both rentals and HOA's.

I may think the bill is high, but ask the MC for the itemized copy of the bill and if in dispute ask for a hearing in front of the Board, which is your right under California Civil Code.

Remember, plumbers may more than attorneys.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ArtM1 on 12/19/2017 7:14 PM
I did receive an invoice pdf of what the plumber did.

Was it indeed for some $600+ dollars?

My condo charges similar for emergency middle-of-the-night water shutoff calls, but IIRC, a lot of the bill is because staff had to be woke up at the middle of the night and get action on the emergency. The HOA wants to encourage people to avoid such emergencies? I do think people at condos should routinely evaluate their water heaters. If the water heater is more than 13 years old, and especially if others are having similarly aged water heaters fail, then owners should be aware of this and be pre-emptive. It's in the governing documents that they are the owners' responsibility, after all. I think water heater failure is a leading cause of disputes between Members and disputes between Members and the Association.

ArtM1 (California)
Posts: 4

Posted:

The invoice that the HOA management sent was one direct from the Plumber and the exact amount was $625.00. There is no charge from the management company for making the call. As far as the age of the water heater it was exactly 10 years old. I had the water heater inspected every 1.5-2 Years. I was also scheduled to replace it first week of 2018.

As others have advised, I will be colllecting a few estimates in writing from other plumbers to present to the HOA management. To show that this plumber is charging way to much. If they can take my findings and get a adjusted amount then I will gladly pay the new amount.

Second, I am just about done with this Management Company so I will be mailing the other owners to vote to change the management. I do owe other condos with different HOA management companies and they are leaps and bounds better then this one.

Once I get this issue resolved, I’ll report back with the conclusion.

Again thank you to everyone for the suggestions!!

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I think the main advice has been to write to your HOA board, NOT the management company. You may have to go through the MC, though.

You also have a right to a hearing with the board to debate this fee.

while I'm not going to search through out financials, I seem to recall plumbing bills for the middle of the night or on weekends have been pretty high. This partly has to do with us being a high rise. Other trades charge more too for these high rise visits.

AugustinD
Posts: 5,144

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ArtM1 on 12/20/2017 8:43 AM
Second, I am just about done with this Management Company so I will be mailing the other owners to vote to change the management. I do owe other condos with different HOA management companies and they are leaps and bounds better then this one.

Attaway, Art. For what it is worth, good job having your water heater inspected every couple years and planning for replacement. I am sorry for the acrimony.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ArtM1 on 12/20/2017 8:43 AM

Second, I am just about done with this Management Company so I will be mailing the other owners to vote to change the management. I do owe other condos with different HOA management companies and they are leaps and bounds better then this one.

Who to use as a MC is entirely up to the Board.

You could gather support to replace the board with those who will change MCs.
However, you will also have to have volunteers willing to serve on the Board.
Perhaps you will be willing.

GaryM15 (North Carolina)
Posts: 63

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By ArtM1 on 12/19/2017 6:28 PM
Hello,

I own a condo that is rented out in the LA area. A few weeks ago I woke up to an email from our HOA management, notifying me that overnight my water heater had leaked and caused damage to the unit next door. The HOA management called a plumber in the middle of the night to shut the water off. The morning I was notified I called my own plumber and changed out my water heater which is located on the roof. The total for a new water heater and disposal of the old one came out to $1,200. Which I am fine paying, but today I receieved an email from the HOA management company billing me $625.00 for the emergency plumber fee. I called my plumber and several others and found out that the standard call out fee for the same service would be anywhere from $250-$350. I think this plumber is charging way to much.

I don't have an issue paying for a fair invoice but this to me looks like a rip off.

What are my options? I have emailed the HOA management with my concern. Any help would be greatly appreciated!!

Thank you

Check with your insurance agent. This may be covered as an accident.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Tim is right, Art. You'd be wasting your time trying to gather support to get rid of your Mgmt. Co. (MC). Homeowners don't hire MCs, boards of directors do.

For some reason, you keep ignoring the role of your board in your HOA. Both Richard & I (also in CA) advise that you seek a hearing to meet with the Board about this fee and submit your evidence that the bill was excessive. And you don't respond to that advice. Instead you keep railing about the MC.

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