Experience with NY attorney general

I know that New York is notoriously lax in governing HOA operations compared to other states. However, I am wondering if any NY HOA members have had any positive experiences in complaining to the Attorney General over HOA conduct.

Specifically, I know that our HOA is not complying with certain elements of the state's Not-For-Profit Corporation law that governs us and supersedes our community bylaws. If I complain to the AG, am I going to be blown off, and told to hire an attorney to fight it out in court, or will the agency actually investigate and take action if violations are found?

In my state (which is not New York), at my former HOA, a Member tried complaining to the state attorney general. The state attorney general said they do not involve themselves in HOA disputes. Like Tim said, HOA disputes are typically a civil matter. A HOA's governing documents or the state's statutes on HOAs or condos typically indicate that "relief" from HOA abuses may be sought through judicial remedy.

New York has some amazing law for condos, due to their prevalence in the NYC area. Where I am, I think HOA and condo members would have a lot more power were New York law applicable here.

-- If your Board is running legitimate elections, then I think any competent HOA attorney will tell you that getting a like-minded group together and winning a majority of the Board seats is the least expensive and usually the quickest way to correct a Board that is not acting lawfully.

-- If your Board is using an attorney and has insurance for the HOA, then a letter of demand can often get results and can cost you nothing but an hour or so to draft and send it (certified mail).

-- It is true that at times HOA owners only have justice if they can afford it. Perhaps it is hell for those of us who have the income to qualify for a mortgage, or the savings to buy outright, a decent home or condo; who can afford to live away from crime-ridden neighborhoods without HOAs; who have the education to ask intelligent questions like yours and the education to find solutions without taking up guns. I think most judges would say, "Look at my docket. Look at these many criminal cases I am dealing with to keep your community safe. And you want to clog up my courtroom because you do not like how your HOA board does not handle parking or sets pool hours you do not like or does Minutes that you think are inaccurate? The system says you will get your day in the court. But given my overall job responsibilities, don't think I am elated to hear your case."

Sorry you're having troubles at your HOA, DavidF.

But to write that "the HOA" is doing thing wrong or illegally isn't quit right. It's you HOA's board of directors. You and all other owners ARE the HOA.

Augustine is right: " If your Board is running legitimate elections, then I think any competent HOA attorney will tell you that getting a like-minded group together and winning a majority of the Board seats is the least expensive and usually the quickest way to correct a Board that is not acting lawfully."

Sheila echoes him. You don't even need to pay an attorney for an hour IF several owners can band together, make sure they understand how to proceed correctly, and throw the bums out at the next election. Several of us on this site have done exactly that!

Sheila mentions attending board meetings with others and putting the pries sure on the Board. That's good too, but I don't think NY rehires that HOA boards hold open meetings, right? Does yours?

I appreciate all the well-meaning comments. They would be very helpful if we had a normal situation. But we don’t. We have documented incidents of self-dealing on the Board, as well as conflicts of interest involving directors and vendors, rigged elections, no-bid contracts, proof that at least one longtime vendor has been offering free services to directors, written documentation that a past Board approved a homeowner’s appropriation of extra community paid water for his personal use (this character now essentially “runs” the Board) and a host of other problems. The monthly newsletters we get are loaded with lies or omit key information.

Surprisingly, these and many other shenanigans have had little impact beyond the third of the community who is seriously concerned and want the current regime out. The rest are either uninvolved or supporting this regime. We know not why they give their support, but we can take a guess. Last year, a new Board came in, started to uncover this dirt and relayed it to the community. We caught the landscaper padding snow removal bills and when we recovered $4,000, we were blasted by some for mistreating the landscaper. We hired a second roofer to perform repairs and our repair costs suddenly dropped by two-thirds. Some people were upset that we weren’t being nice to the original roofer, who had been overcharging us. When we announced we were going to replace the longtime painter with someone far better and cheaper, we got an impassioned letter from former Board members and the current regime’s supporters asking us to keep the old guy. After we hired the new painter and started to go through the community to identify touch-ups, one of the signers insisted on meeting with the new vendor privately. We refused. For all of our honest and transparent work, including the saving of $40,000 over nine months, last year’s new Board was narrowly voted out after members of the current regime had circulated a letter full of lies to the community attacking us. During the election, our secretary identified a number of homeowner proxies with the same handwriting.

We would welcome any advice on how to deal with this situation and try to understand the motivation of the supporters of this current awful Board. I fear it will take a psychiatrist rather than an HOA expert. We are almost thinking we need to create our own “opposition party” within the community and put out our own newsletter with the truth.

Also, thanks for the link to the NY AG document. I’m very familiar with it, especially the ending, “Good luck!” The only words missing are: “You’re on your own.”

In my experience with three HOAs and after years of reading on the subject, I think the abuses you describe are pretty common. Also, I think apathy is the rule. So many beat their heads against the wall with volunteer board members without adequate skills or motivation to achieve the same. For many, including myself, I think it is best to move to the countryside either far away from HOAs or with a HOA with a tiny budget per capita and as few covenants as possible. Keep one's head down and remember that, unless one is willing to step up to do all the work, it might be easiest to accept the mediocrity and not complain.

Yes, all five Board members run every year in our community of less than five dozen homes. I was among the majority who tried to run the place with more honesty, transparency and efficiency. Along the way, we lifted up a lot of rocks and uncovered a whole bunch of nasty stuff that was probably upsetting to some longtime residents and former board members in the community because of their current or past involvement. One such character was behind the letter of lies sent to the entire community before last year's election, and he and his buddies worked to get us off the Board by coercing residents to hand over their blank proxies or voting for his own slate. We also had one spy on the Board, who did no work but fed information from our Board meetings back to the slate. He later joined them in running against us.

We don't have a real property manager or management company in the traditional sense. The Board handles the big jobs itself -- I know not why -- so the management company has been more of a facilitator, handling the money and directives from the Board to perform minor tasks. The management company also places the concerns of its preferred stable of contractors far above the concerns of our commmunity.

When we tried to get the management company to do a real property management job as defined in the contract, they resisted and later supported the opposition slate. The landscaper, who was caught by us padding the snow removal bills, even wrote a letter supporting the opposition slate. In short, all of those who stood to profit -- through no-bid contracts or personal favors or special privileges not given to other homeowners -- are now in power. Thanks to this new, corrupt slate, the community is now divided with little hope of change until some of the cancers in the community are somehow removed.

It reminds me of those movies where a tyrant takes over a town in the Old West and the citizens are helpless until someone like the Lone Ranger shows up. Our problem is that half of the homeowners would chase the Lone Ranger out of town and continue to back the tyrant.