πŸ’¬ Join us to post & get advice from 50,000 HOA & Condo leaders.

Create Free Account β†’

⚑ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in

FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Hello all, and Happy Holidays, Happy Hanukkah, Merry Christmas. And Happy Festivus for those Seinfeld fans.--;)

Question:
Many residents are asking why they all pay the same maintenance fees as the many homes in our community that have no lawns to maintain, while others have large plots and lager square footage homes. .

Has anyone else come across such requests for Maintenance fee revisions, according to type of property, and how this situation was resolved?.

Thanks!

FW
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Our Covenants say all costs are equally split.
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
So do ours. I have seen condo HOAs with varying dues based on the size and type of the unit, but I think it would be tough to change that in an existing HOA where everyone pays the same amount.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Is your HOA responsible for maintaining aspects of the individual houses, Fred? Paint the exteriors? Re-roof? Or?
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/18/2017 11:04 AM
Is your HOA responsible for maintaining aspects of the individual houses, Fred? Paint the exteriors? Re-roof? Or?

Yes.All exterior maintenance, outside insurance, outside painting. but not re-roofing.
Last time we replaced roof about 8 years ago, every house was assessed the same amount. There was such an outcry and lawsuits from the smaller house owners (who got bids to see the actual cost of reroofing) that each was assessed according to roof area.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
The answer lies in the governing documents. If it says all maintenance fees are split evenly, then they should be split evenly. That would be tied to the deed.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Douglas is right, IMO, the answer's in your governing documents. If there's nothing about variable assessments based on lot size or house sf, then everyone pays the same. If so, your board violated your governing docs by charging a variable amount for the special assessments.

If owners are upset enough, they can band together and campaign to change the CC&Rs to variable monthly assessments. But they'd have to do the homework.

We DO have variable assessment based on unit sf of our condo buildings. The variable taken into account are building insurance, gas and water/sewer. I can think of other variables that would make more sense, but it's not worth the effort to try to change the CC&Rs over daily minor amounts.

DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredW5 on 12/18/2017 11:27 AM
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/18/2017 11:04 AM
Is your HOA responsible for maintaining aspects of the individual houses, Fred? Paint the exteriors? Re-roof? Or?


Yes.All exterior maintenance, outside insurance, outside painting. but not re-roofing.
Last time we replaced roof about 8 years ago, every house was assessed the same amount. There was such an outcry and lawsuits from the smaller house owners (who got bids to see the actual cost of reroofing) that each was assessed according to roof area.

Were there actual lawsuits? or just threats?

The bid should have been shown as a total for all the roofs together.

Either way, if the governing documents do not expressly say the charges can be separated and not an equal amount to all, they did it wrong. When Lot C came complaining saying why does he have to pay the same as Lot D even though Lot D is larger, I would have said "because you own part of Lot D"
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
IMO, everyone is guessing unless they have access to your governing documents. Ifyou have a MC, has the question been directed to them. If no MC, I would direct your inquiry to an attorney.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Good one, Douglas, when you wrote: "I would have said "because you own part of Lot D."

Both you & I wrote it depends on what's in your governing docs. Not sure why Richard says we're guessing at that. Fred can either tell us what's in his docs or not. Up to him.
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,059
Posted:
Fred,

As others have said, your governing documents (typically the covenants) will (should) say how assessments are divided.

Personally, I've only heard of condominium developments that assess based on square footage (and not all of them do that). All others I have heard of divide the cost equally.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/18/2017 3:36 PM
Good one, Douglas, when you wrote: "I would have said "because you own part of Lot D."

Both you & I wrote it depends on what's in your governing docs. Not sure why Richard says we're guessing at that. Fred can either tell us what's in his docs or not. Up to him.

It's called experience!!

CCRs can say equal assessments, but change when it covers special assessments. I believe I have reviewed more than most here.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
So we agree. Fred needs to review his docs. Who is saying otherwise?

I'll also agree that if they're too complicated due to legalese, unclear wording, etc., he should have an HOA attorney interpret them.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
FredW5, I sympathize. In my community, half of the homes were built by the original developer and the other half by a different homebuilder after the original developer bailed out of the project. My HOA is responsible for the maintenance and periodic re-roofing of all 100 homes. We're still 5-7 years away from the next scheduled re-roofing project in accordance with our reserves schedule. Over the last few years about 10 of the original roofs, per year, have required repairs to fix leaks. This year the total cost of these repairs is running about $8,000. Meanwhile, roughly 2 of the newer roofs per year have required repairs.

The roofs on the older homes experience 5 times the number of roof leaks per year. This trend has been steady for the last few years and the owners of the homes built by the 2nd builder are asking the same question as you. Namely, why should they have to share the burden of frequent roof repairs on the original homes, when the newer homes have almost no problems at all? In next year's budget there's a $10,000 line item for roof repairs and if past is prologue then 85% of that will be spent for the benefit of only half of the homeowners, and it appears that this is becoming an annual thing. All owners, however, must contribute their 1/100 share of the maintenance costs of the association as per our governing documents.

The governing documents also say that the 1/100 proportional share for all regular and special assessments may never be altered. A lot of us wish there was something we could do about the situation but it appears we're kind of stuck with it.

(The roofs on the original 50 homes are somewhat more "fancy" than the roofs on the final 50 homes that were built with many more valleys and ridges. The roof designs on the newer homes are much simpler. We've been told that is the reason for the discrepancy in roof repair rates between old and new.)
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Thanks everyone for your input. I have read the HOA document, and it seems kind of vague as to the distribution of costs. Although it seems to mention "Equal Distribution", yet it leaves open the option (IMHO) to revise each owners Maintenance "Assessments". See attached.
πŸ“Ž Attachments (2):

⏸ Downloads temporarily unavailable

πŸ“„1121944484971.pdf(33 KB)
πŸ“„1121944488054.pdf(97 KB)
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Please see my last post with Docs. attached. Thanks!
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 12/18/2017 3:28 PM
IMO, everyone is guessing unless they have access to your governing documents. Ifyou have a MC, has the question been directed to them. If no MC, I would direct your inquiry to an attorney.

It was a class action Lawsuit, which was dropped when HOA rescinded equal costs regardless of roof sizes.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredW5 on 12/19/2017 6:44 AM
Thanks everyone for your input. I have read the HOA document, and it seems kind of vague as to the distribution of costs. Although it seems to mention "Equal Distribution", yet it leaves open the option (IMHO) to revise each owners Maintenance "Assessments". See attached.

Based on the second document it appears the Board can change the budget and come up with a different method.
DavidF22 (New York)
Posts: 91
Posted:
Our fees are split evenly among all homeowners, but more and more, we are seeing people put additional plantings on common land adjacent to their homes without getting approval from our landscape committee or paying anything extra for the landscaping services. A Board member is one of the worst offenders.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidF22 on 12/19/2017 7:57 AM
Our fees are split evenly among all homeowners, but more and more, we are seeing people put additional plantings on common land adjacent to their homes without getting approval from our landscape committee or paying anything extra for the landscaping services. A Board member is one of the worst offenders.

What does that have to do with how assessments are divided up?
DavidF22 (New York)
Posts: 91
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By RichardP13 on 12/19/2017 8:09 AM
Posted By DavidF22 on 12/19/2017 7:57 AM
Our fees are split evenly among all homeowners, but more and more, we are seeing people put additional plantings on common land adjacent to their homes without getting approval from our landscape committee or paying anything extra for the landscaping services. A Board member is one of the worst offenders.


What does that have to do with how assessments are divided up?

It should be up to the Board and a landscaping committee to decide what goes on common land. We all contribute to the landscaping budget equally and that’s as it should be. But some homeowners put elaborate landscapes on common land, adjacent to their homes and for their personal benefit. They don’t always ask permission under the bylaws. Then, they expect the entire community to pay for taking care of it.
RichardP13 (California)
Posts: 3,868
Posted:
Simple solution, REMOVE THEM! The plants, that is.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Your post is a little off-topic, DavidF., but our Board crafted a rule against any plant materials being "donated" to the common areas. This sometimes would happen when someone was moving out, didn't want to take a plant with them and didn't want to throw it away. Suddenly we'd see a rose bush in the middle of a planter of tropical plants.

The rule went through the normal approval process in CA. If this does occur, the landscapers remove the plant--as Richard suggests.

Don't know what you'll do since (in your other posts) your Board sounds corrupt and sounds like they won't enforce such a rule even if you had one.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
IMO, Fred, you've cited the wrong part of your governing document. Your citation seems to apply only to common area that more than one "development" may use. In those cases the boards seem to be able to decide how much each development should contribute to that common area that's shared by more than one development. Then the lots in each development would be assessed equally for those common areas.

Now, maybe you have only one development and the developer simply put that article in in case he DID develop subsequent developments.

What you need to find is how the lots or units in YOUR development are assessed. What formula, if any, is specified? Surely when someone wants to buy a home in your HOA and asks: "How are dues determined?" Someone can point to an article in your covenants that states that.

BTW, Fred, the doc. article that you cite seems to say that Owners must approve or ratify the budget each year. Has that been happening?
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posted:
Thanks for your response, Kerry.
I have gone through our HOA documents twice, and nowhere are "Maintenance fees" Or
"Dues" mentioned, that is why I forwarded the doc.sections addressing assessments.

Regarding owner approval or ratification of the yearly budgets, It has always been approved by a majority of the board.

Finally, I have been alerted that bringing up the concept of Maintenance Dues based on home or property size and value ,would never be approved due to the majority of board members own such homes, as well as a minority of homes being the smaller properties...Not to mention the legal costs in revising the BY-Laws.

Regardless, I will bring this up at our yearly meeting in February.
DavidF22 (New York)
Posts: 91
Posted:
I hope this is on-topic, but after several years in an HOA and two years as a (now former) director, I've found that some people have trouble adjusting to HOA-style communal living and paying for things that may benefit others. We all pay equally here, even though houses and individual plots of land vary in size. People tend to accept that, but you do see some resentment on smaller things.

For, example, the folks who don't use the tennis courts or the pool would be happy to see them ripped out, even though they help keep up property values. We have a current Board that is neglecting much-needed maintenance on the pool and even let it run dry of chlorine last year and afoul of some laws, likely because none of them swim. And I can still remember the time during an historic blizzard last year when I had to explain to two complaining homeowners why their properties were not plowed first, and that we plow certain homes according to need (i.e., doctors, EMTs, frail elderly, etc.) and then do the rest on a random basis that gets the entire property done in the shortest amount of time.

This may be slightly off-topic, but I also find it odd when people want to add tall plantings on common land to increase their privacy and block their view of other homes. If you're looking for that amount of privacy, why move to a community of attached homes?
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Given what you wrote, Fred, it doesn't seems there'd by enough votes to change your documents.

Sooooo HOW does anyone know how much to bill owners for their maintenance fees if the amount or fraction is not expressed in your governing documents????????

Right, David, you latest post on this thread has nothing in it to assist the OP, Fred.
TimM11
Posts: 354
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DavidF22 on 12/20/2017 8:19 AM
I hope this is on-topic, but after several years in an HOA and two years as a (now former) director, I've found that some people have trouble adjusting to HOA-style communal living and paying for things that may benefit others. We all pay equally here, even though houses and individual plots of land vary in size. People tend to accept that, but you do see some resentment on smaller things.

There's a difference, though, between something people could use but choose not to (like a pool or tennis court), and something they can't, like a driveway or patio for a specific unit. It's a tricky issue and there's often no way around it, but you can't blame people for being a bit resentful.

🎯 You've read this entire discussion

Join the conversation with 50,000 HOA & Condo Leaders:

  • βœ“ Ask follow-up questions
  • βœ“ Share your experience
  • βœ“ Get expert advice
  • βœ“ Access 350,000 discussions
Create Free Account β†’

⚑ Takes 30 seconds

Already a member? Log in here