MikeB21 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
can HOA restrict licensed and insured motorcycles from the property for owners? Would it matter if that were the homeowners only mode of transportation?
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HOA restrictions
Started by MikeB21 • 27 replies • 2006 views
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FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posts: 927
Posted:
I have not heard of such a restriction but I do not see any reason why it cannot be done. Doing it properly might require some carefully written text in the CCRs.
I suppose noise considerations are a possible reason for doing this.
I do not believe there is any legal requirement that an HOA permit owners all possible choices of personal transportation.
I suppose noise considerations are a possible reason for doing this.
I do not believe there is any legal requirement that an HOA permit owners all possible choices of personal transportation.
PaininyourA
Posts: 215
Posts: 215
Posted:
The 'HOA' restricts NOTHING.
The HOA merely administers the Covenants and Restrictions.
What do YOUR covenants say ?
Are motorcycles restricted ?
The HOA merely administers the Covenants and Restrictions.
What do YOUR covenants say ?
Are motorcycles restricted ?
MikeB21 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
there is nothing in the bylaws or master deed. however, the bylaws do grant the authority to make and amend regulations of use in the common areas. However, the current rule was no motorcycles. And some are of the opinion that you can't restrict a licensed and insured mode of transportation.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
What, Mike, is the name of the document that says "no motorcycles?"
MikeB21 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
it' in the rules and regulations adopted by the board
MikeB21 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
nothing in the master deed or bylaws. just in the rules
LetA (Nevada)
Posts: 2,679
Posts: 2,679
Posted:
I worked security at a condo high-rise where commercial vehicles and vehicles with advertising was not allowed to enter the main valet entrance, they had to use the dock/ service entrance. The only exception was pizza deliveries and taxi cabs. go figure. I think this covenant was to limit realtors, because other vehicles like tree trimmers, plumbers etc needed access to the driveway and roundabout to the valet on a regular basis.
HOA's cannot ban properly registered motorcycles from the community, they can ban the motorcycle if it is a nuisance i.e. loud muffler.
HOA's cannot ban properly registered motorcycles from the community, they can ban the motorcycle if it is a nuisance i.e. loud muffler.
MikeB21 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
the master deed reads as follows: perpetual non-exclusive easement in common element:
the common elements shall be, and the same are hereby declared to be subject to a perpetual non-exclusive easement in favor of all of the owners of dwellings in the condominium for their use and the use of their immediate families, guest, and invitees, for all proper and normal purposes and for the furnishing of services of facilities for which same are reasonably intended for the enjoyment of said owners dwellings.....XXX homeowners association shall have to right to establish the rules and regulations pursuant to which the owner or owners of any dwelling may be entitled to the exclusive use of any parking space or spaces.
the common elements shall be, and the same are hereby declared to be subject to a perpetual non-exclusive easement in favor of all of the owners of dwellings in the condominium for their use and the use of their immediate families, guest, and invitees, for all proper and normal purposes and for the furnishing of services of facilities for which same are reasonably intended for the enjoyment of said owners dwellings.....XXX homeowners association shall have to right to establish the rules and regulations pursuant to which the owner or owners of any dwelling may be entitled to the exclusive use of any parking space or spaces.
FredS7 (Arizona)
Posts: 927
Posts: 927
Posted:
> And some are of the opinion that you can't restrict a licensed and insured mode of transportation.
WHY, exactly??
A license and insurance does not guarantee that a vehicle can be used in any particular place. For example: licensed large trucks are not allowed on certain bridges.
Maybe what they mean to say is that you SHOULD not restrict, which is an entirely different statement.
WHY, exactly??
A license and insurance does not guarantee that a vehicle can be used in any particular place. For example: licensed large trucks are not allowed on certain bridges.
Maybe what they mean to say is that you SHOULD not restrict, which is an entirely different statement.
MikeB21 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
I can understand a restriction for a hazardous reason....
PaininyourA
Posts: 215
Posts: 215
Posted:
presumably the cycle in question has a legal DOT approved for street use muffler which is virtually silent when operating the bike
if not, it is NOT properly registered and insured as it is NOT legal for street use
ps. Harley's claim to fame in the fifties was the QUIETNESS of the machine
if not, it is NOT properly registered and insured as it is NOT legal for street use
ps. Harley's claim to fame in the fifties was the QUIETNESS of the machine
MikeB21 (South Carolina)
Posts: 7
Posts: 7
Posted:
yes. but also, street dot factory Harley Davidsons aren't silent. But, no modifications have been done to make it louder to create an environment where owners can't enjoy their home
PaininyourA
Posts: 215
Posts: 215
Posted:
IMO:
(not legal advice)
Your declaration does NOT ban 'street legal' bikes as they are common everyday forms of transportation.
You have a perpetual easement.
but
The BOD says otherwise - you may need a letter to them from YOUR attorney.
Use a 'contract law' guy versed in HOA matters NOT a real estate guy.
or
Wait for action on their part and then 'counter-punch'.
(not legal advice)
Your declaration does NOT ban 'street legal' bikes as they are common everyday forms of transportation.
You have a perpetual easement.
but
The BOD says otherwise - you may need a letter to them from YOUR attorney.
Use a 'contract law' guy versed in HOA matters NOT a real estate guy.
or
Wait for action on their part and then 'counter-punch'.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Another option is for you & your neighbors to pressure the Board to change the rule. Did the current board make this rule? Or is it old?
A new rule which permits motorcycles certainly can use strict language about noise (if that's the issue). Our high rise condo building even has underground common area garage spaces of motorcycle size.
A new rule which permits motorcycles certainly can use strict language about noise (if that's the issue). Our high rise condo building even has underground common area garage spaces of motorcycle size.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
I know of several HOA's in SC that ban motorcycles. One bans them from being on their private streets. One bans them from parking outside overnight as in it must be in your garage at night.
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posts: 140
Posted:
An HOA certainly can restrict parking/storage of properly licensed vehicles, as already mentioned, it's common to have restrictions on the parking of "commercial vehicles."
I think the more relevant question in your situation though is "can the board adopt such a rule by board resolution?" i.e. if your CCRs prohibited motorcycles, I suspect that would be valid. Either everyone who bought into the community knew about that restriction (or should have) when they bought, or a large enough majority to amend your restrictions to include that did so, and tough luck for the rest. That's one of the potential pitfalls of a deed restricted community.
But the board doing something like this by resolution, that affects the property rights of the entire community, I suspect is on much shakier ground. If they could, whats to stop them next from saying "no pickup trucks."?
I think the more relevant question in your situation though is "can the board adopt such a rule by board resolution?" i.e. if your CCRs prohibited motorcycles, I suspect that would be valid. Either everyone who bought into the community knew about that restriction (or should have) when they bought, or a large enough majority to amend your restrictions to include that did so, and tough luck for the rest. That's one of the potential pitfalls of a deed restricted community.
But the board doing something like this by resolution, that affects the property rights of the entire community, I suspect is on much shakier ground. If they could, whats to stop them next from saying "no pickup trucks."?
BenA2 (Texas)
Posts: 1,273
Posts: 1,273
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB21 on 12/13/2017 9:36 AM
I can understand a restriction for a hazardous reason....
I can understand a restriction for a hazardous reason....
There is a huge difference between banning trucks and other commercial vehicles and banning common forms of private transportation, such as motorcycles. In theory they could ban Ford Mustangs but no court would uphold such an absurd restriction.
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By PaininyourA on 12/13/2017 9:54 AM
presumably the cycle in question has a legal DOT approved for street use muffler which is virtually silent when operating the bike
if not, it is NOT properly registered and insured as it is NOT legal for street use
ps. Harley's claim to fame in the fifties was the QUIETNESS of the machine
presumably the cycle in question has a legal DOT approved for street use muffler which is virtually silent when operating the bike
if not, it is NOT properly registered and insured as it is NOT legal for street use
ps. Harley's claim to fame in the fifties was the QUIETNESS of the machine
Oh Please, give me a break. A "loud" bike is not legal? Not insured? Where do you get this crap from?
Oh wait!, It may vary from state to state. But I will say I have never seen DOT approved mufflers. Mufflers that meet noise standards, yes.
This will lead to another thread.
PaininyourA
Posts: 215
Posts: 215
Posted:
nope - I am tired of the ka-ka 
DouglasM6 (Arizona)
Posts: 724
Posts: 724
Posted:
Mike-
I'd tell them to kiss my ass. But my bike is pretty quiet. If your's is loud that may be the issue.
I'd tell them to kiss my ass. But my bike is pretty quiet. If your's is loud that may be the issue.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
This is in our Declaration:
"All panel trucks, pick-up trucks, dune buggies, and motorcycles will be restricted from entering the Subdivision as determined by the Board of Directors through rules and regulations promulgated by the Board..."
The language is ca. 1989. From what I hear, the board has never decided to take action on motorcycles. The only ones here on a semi-regular basis belong to visitors and guests.
About 7 years ago a prospective homeowner came to an open house in the community. He liked the house and got a copy of our documents from someone (realtor, probably). He noticed the above restriction and WROTE A LETTER TO THE BOARD asking if he would be able to bring his motorcycle into the HOA. He described it (a cushy touring bike, the guy was in his '60s) and promised to only drive it directly between the front gate and his garage. The board granted him permission and he bought the house and moved in. 4 years later the guy was killed in an automobile accident (added just for a touch of irony given that motorcycles are thought to be far more dangerous to drive than autos).
We'll be updating our vehicular restrictions via amendment next year but have no intention of doing away with the restriction on motorcycles. Our attorney has advised us it's fine and as long as it's in the Declaration (CC&Rs) the courts are likely to uphold it.
"All panel trucks, pick-up trucks, dune buggies, and motorcycles will be restricted from entering the Subdivision as determined by the Board of Directors through rules and regulations promulgated by the Board..."
The language is ca. 1989. From what I hear, the board has never decided to take action on motorcycles. The only ones here on a semi-regular basis belong to visitors and guests.
About 7 years ago a prospective homeowner came to an open house in the community. He liked the house and got a copy of our documents from someone (realtor, probably). He noticed the above restriction and WROTE A LETTER TO THE BOARD asking if he would be able to bring his motorcycle into the HOA. He described it (a cushy touring bike, the guy was in his '60s) and promised to only drive it directly between the front gate and his garage. The board granted him permission and he bought the house and moved in. 4 years later the guy was killed in an automobile accident (added just for a touch of irony given that motorcycles are thought to be far more dangerous to drive than autos).
We'll be updating our vehicular restrictions via amendment next year but have no intention of doing away with the restriction on motorcycles. Our attorney has advised us it's fine and as long as it's in the Declaration (CC&Rs) the courts are likely to uphold it.
PaininyourA
Posts: 215
Posts: 215
Posted:
Our attorney has advised us it's fine and as long as it's in the Declaration (CC&Rs) the courts are likely to uphold it.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By MikeB21 on 12/13/2017 7:47 AM
can HOA restrict licensed and insured motorcycles from the property for owners? Would it matter if that were the homeowners only mode of transportation?
can HOA restrict licensed and insured motorcycles from the property for owners? Would it matter if that were the homeowners only mode of transportation?
Potentially would depend if the roads the motorcycles are using are owned by the HOA or the Local Government. If the streets are not paid for and maintained by the HOA then potentially they cannot regulate property which they DO NOT OWN.
FredW5 (Florida)
Posts: 177
Posts: 177
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By JanetB2 on 12/17/2017 12:30 AM
Posted By MikeB21 on 12/13/2017 7:47 AM
can HOA restrict licensed and insured motorcycles from the property for owners? Would it matter if that were the homeowners only mode of transportation?
can HOA restrict licensed and insured motorcycles from the property for owners? Would it matter if that were the homeowners only mode of transportation?
Potentially would depend if the roads the motorcycles are using are owned by the HOA or the Local Government. If the streets are not paid for and maintained by the HOA then potentially they cannot regulate property which they DO NOT OWN.
Motorcycles (And other vehicles) are restricted on our community roads according to noise levels exceeding 82 Decibels ** which are measured at our gate via Noise Meters.
**http://drivinglaws.aaa.com/tag/motorcycle-noise-limits/
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,061
Posts: 21,061
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By FredW5 on 12/18/2017 10:02 AM
Motorcycles (And other vehicles) are restricted on our community roads according to noise levels exceeding 82 Decibels ** which are measured at our gate via Noise Meters.
Motorcycles (And other vehicles) are restricted on our community roads according to noise levels exceeding 82 Decibels ** which are measured at our gate via Noise Meters.
Interesting, because the typical gas lawn mower produces noise around 90db.
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posts: 140
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By TimB4 on 12/18/2017 3:49 PM
Posted By FredW5 on 12/18/2017 10:02 AM
Motorcycles (And other vehicles) are restricted on our community roads according to noise levels exceeding 82 Decibels ** which are measured at our gate via Noise Meters.
Motorcycles (And other vehicles) are restricted on our community roads according to noise levels exceeding 82 Decibels ** which are measured at our gate via Noise Meters.
Interesting, because the typical gas lawn mower produces noise around 90db.
But you don't typically drive your lawn mower around the block or at night.
SheliaH (Indiana)
Posts: 6,964
Posts: 6,964
Posted:
It would appear the overall answer is "it depends on your documents" If your association established a rule against motorcycles, why not ask the Board why the rule exists? If noise was an issue, it seems there were other ways of addressing that. Perhaps this is an old rule everyone's forgotten about (at least until you came along) and if it was enacted because of a Board resolution, it would seem to me you can take Kerry's suggestion, rally together neighbors who agree with you and everyone petition to amend or drop the rule via another board resolution. To sweeten the deal, you could come up with suggestions on how to deal with any noise complaints, people doing wheelies down the street, etc.
If it is not right do not do it; if it is not true do not say it. Marcus Aurelius
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