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CrystalT1 (Florida)
Posts: 3
Posted:
We have a very small community of 21 units, it is a little less than 50/50 of people whom own their unit and live there, or people who rent their property out. Every year the board sends out proxy forms for the annual meeting and lists one board member on the proxy form if they do not write in their own. Most of the people who do not live in the community just sign their name and send it back, allowing that one board member to basically have the majority vote. Every time we have elections, one person controls the elections because they have majority vote.

I have read the statute 720.303(2)(C)(3) and the wording is somewhat confusing. It states, Directors may not vote by proxy or by secret ballot at board meetings, except that secret ballots may be used in the election of officers. Does this mean the director listed on the proxy can vote in elections, or no?

Our HOA has basically been a dictatorship with the same board since before I bought my house in 2013. I also caught our past President, current "bookkeeper" in December 2015 paying her own contracting company over $6k for part of a pipe repair project. Nobody backed me up with her having a conflict of interest because members of the board were all her friends. Numerous family members of hers were completing services for the HOA for payment. She has since sold all of her units, and her friends that are on the board signed a contract with her unlicensed company to complete bookkeeping for our very small HOA. She is receiving $6,600/year to complete bookkeeping tasks.

This seems insane to me that this is all happening. Does anyone have any advice?
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CrystalT1 on 12/06/2017 6:15 AM

Every year the board sends out proxy forms for the annual meeting and lists one board member on the proxy form if they do not write in their own.

This is normal procedure for Associations that use proxies.

Quote:
Posted By CrystalT1 on 12/06/2017 6:15 AM

I have read the statute 720.303(2)(C)(3) and the wording is somewhat confusing. It states, Directors may not vote by proxy or by secret ballot at board meetings, except that secret ballots may be used in the election of officers. Does this mean the director listed on the proxy can vote in elections, or no?

That section of the statute does not apply to general membership meetings (which is what the annual meeting is). It only applies to meetings of the Board of Directors.

The named individual on the proxy statement can, and should, cast votes for those they hold proxies for.

Quote:
Posted By CrystalT1 on 12/06/2017 6:15 AM
She has since sold all of her units, and her friends that are on the board signed a contract with her unlicensed company to complete bookkeeping for our very small HOA. She is receiving $6,600/year to complete bookkeeping tasks.

The Board has broad authority who they can award contracts to.
Conflicts of interest should be avoided but if one exists and the Board is made aware of it prior to awarding the contract, there is nothing illegal about it (that I am aware of).

Note: we pay our bookkeeper $4,500 a year for 130 lots.
Therefore, it does seem high.

Quote:
Posted By CrystalT1 on 12/06/2017 6:15 AM

This seems insane to me that this is all happening. Does anyone have any advice?

At the next election gather support and vote those individuals off the board.
When proxy forms come out, copy them and go knocking on doors explaining your concerns and ask that they designate you as their proxy representative. For those who are nonresident members, this can be done by mail.

Note: with such a small complex, it may be impossible to get enough to run to have everyone voted off the board. Associations can only elect those who are willing to serve and do the work. Not everyone wants to do this. Therefore, those who are willing are the ones who serve even if they are not the best candidates.

Hope this helps,

Tim
CrystalT1 (Florida)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Tim,
We have several homeowners that are interested in serving on the board, so that is not the issue. I have a degree in political science, have years of experience being on boards of organizations, but this is very different because as a member of an organization you usually have a list of all members and contact information. I have requested contact information for all homeowners from the board and they refuse to give it to me. The issue is I have no way to contact the people who rent their unit to voice my concerns directly to them. Most of them go through a property management company; therefore, their renters do not even have their contact information.
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CrystalT1 on 12/06/2017 6:53 AM
Tim,
We have several homeowners that are interested in serving on the board, so that is not the issue. I have a degree in political science, have years of experience being on boards of organizations, but this is very different because as a member of an organization you usually have a list of all members and contact information. I have requested contact information for all homeowners from the board and they refuse to give it to me. The issue is I have no way to contact the people who rent their unit to voice my concerns directly to them. Most of them go through a property management company; therefore, their renters do not even have their contact information.

I know in many counties/cities one can search the tax records (via street address) which will show the owner and a current address for the owner where the tax bill is sent. Do a mailing explaining your point of view. Include a proxy naming herself as the proxy holder. If enough give her their proxy then she is now in control.

Remember the last dated/signed proxy is the one used as in it overrides any earlier proxies.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Crystal Doesn't FL legislation require HOAs to provide a last of HOA & mailing addresses of all owners to an owner upon written request???? What about your own governing documents--maybe in your bylaws??

The law probably does not require the HOA to give you email addresses or phone #s.

Some FL posters, and there are some good ones here, may advise you. Surely you don't have to seek such records from your local city or county! It sounds like SC HOAs do NOT have to provide such a list to Owners. Is that right, JohnC?
PaininyourA
Posts: 215
Posted:
NO, that is NOT correct.

SC not-for-profit corporate law states membership list is available to any member requesting same.

Property ID, name and mailing address of member.

In alphabetical order by member's last name !



KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
Thanks, Pain. Then, why, JohnC, are you telling folks to go to county or city records?
JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By KerryL1 on 12/06/2017 12:36 PM
Thanks, Pain. Then, why, JohnC, are you telling folks to go to county or city records?

Not knowing how FL, where the OP lives, handles the situation I was suggesting an alternative way to obtain an owners list and a methodology for others to use also.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CrystalT1 on 12/06/2017 6:53 AM

I have requested contact information for all homeowners from the board and they refuse to give it to me. The issue is I have no way to contact the people who rent their unit to voice my concerns directly to them.

Any requests for membership lists should be done in writing.
The request should also cite applicable sections of the governing documents and State statutes.
The request should be sent by certified mail to have a paper trail.

The request should be polite, something along the lines of:

I am requesting a copy of the Associations membership list with names, property address, mailing address, email addresses (if known) and phone numbers (if known).

This request is being made in accordance with Article x, section y of [name of document], FL 720.303 (if a homeowners association) and FL 617.1602 (if your Association is incorporated).

I may be reached at:

Thank you,

NOTE: you may have to pay for the copies.

If the Board refuses or ignores, send a second request via certified mail, mentioning the date of the initial request to the Assocaitions registered agent. Additionally, if the association uses a management company and they fail to provide, then make a complaint against the MC license.

Alternatively, some Counties do have property records online which list the mailing address of the owners. That would be a way to obtain the information without letting the Board know.

PaininyourA
Posts: 215
Posted:
The 'online' public records are 'probably' more accurate as they reflect the mailing address for the property tax bills.

Too many BODs have incomplete and/or inaccurate membership lists.

HOWEVER

Virtually any Corporation is required to publish/make available a 'membership list' upon request.

I would suggest NOT requesting email addresses or phone numbers as they are NOT required to be provided.

ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
Crystal, check your governing documents (probably the bylaws) to see if they say what kind of proxies can be used at meetings of the members. i.e. My HOA's bylaws allow only limited proxies. For years, the management company sent out general proxies. If you're supposed to be using limited proxies, point that out, and stop the one director from abusing the pool of proxies in the future.
KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550
Posted:
With Pian, maybe FL HOAs do not have to provide email addys & Phone#. To request them might slow down your request, Crystal.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CrystalT1 on 12/06/2017 6:53 AM
Tim,
We have several homeowners that are interested in serving on the board, so that is not the issue. I have a degree in political science, have years of experience being on boards of organizations, but this is very different because as a member of an organization you usually have a list of all members and contact information. I have requested contact information for all homeowners from the board and they refuse to give it to me. The issue is I have no way to contact the people who rent their unit to voice my concerns directly to them. Most of them go through a property management company; therefore, their renters do not even have their contact information.

You have a right to a list of homeowners and their mailing addresses. The board, by denying you access to that list, prevents you from soliciting your own proxies - there's no requirement that the "official" one sent out by the board must be used.

If you requested a list of homeowners and their contact information and you made that request in writing, then you could consider filing for arbitration of the election with the DBPR. After the election you have 60 days to file.
DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By CrystalT1 on 12/06/2017 6:15 AM

I have read the statute 720.303(2)(C)(3) and the wording is somewhat confusing. It states, Directors may not vote by proxy or by secret ballot at board meetings, except that secret ballots may be used in the election of officers. Does this mean the director listed on the proxy can vote in elections, or no?

As long as you are perusing 720, look at 720.303(5), inspection and copying of records. This details what they have to provide, how quickly they need to make it available (10 days), and the daily fine for missing that deadline.

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.
JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By DouglasK1 on 12/06/2017 8:14 PM
Posted By CrystalT1 on 12/06/2017 6:15 AM

I have read the statute 720.303(2)(C)(3) and the wording is somewhat confusing. It states, Directors may not vote by proxy or by secret ballot at board meetings, except that secret ballots may be used in the election of officers. Does this mean the director listed on the proxy can vote in elections, or no?


As long as you are perusing 720, look at 720.303(5), inspection and copying of records. This details what they have to provide, how quickly they need to make it available (10 days), and the daily fine for missing that deadline.


Be sure to send those requests in method to verify receipt by the HOA such as mailing “Certified Return Receipt” ... then when they have to pay you for their fine ... they will have no excuse regarding amount owed via your proof.
ArtL1 (Florida)
Posts: 140
Posted:
For names and addresses of the owners, have you checked to see how "high tech" your county property appraiser is? In my county, I can download from their web site, an excel spreadsheet of all the homes in the neighborhood, that same data as a PDF formatted for printing mailing labels, or use a map view to view the owner info for each individual lot.
CrystalT1 (Florida)
Posts: 3
Posted:
Thank you, I did make a list from the property appraiser website yesterday.
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By ArtL1 on 12/07/2017 2:59 AM
For names and addresses of the owners, have you checked to see how "high tech" your county property appraiser is? In my county, I can download from their web site, an excel spreadsheet of all the homes in the neighborhood, that same data as a PDF formatted for printing mailing labels, or use a map view to view the owner info for each individual lot.

That's a good point. My county's website is very easy to use. Some of the larger counties in Florida are more complicated. It's still easier to get this information in Florida than it is in some other states, though. In Virginia you have to pay for a monthly subscription to the counties' onliune records systems. That may vary from county to county in VA, but that was the case in at least 2 counties from which I was trying to gather some information. In California - L.A. County at least - they don't charge for the information but you have to go a records office to see it because it's not all online due to "privacy concerns".
TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062
Posted:
Quote:
Posted By GenoS on 12/07/2017 9:16 PM

In Virginia you have to pay for a monthly subscription to the counties' onliune records systems. That may vary from county to county in VA, but that was the case in at least 2 counties from which I was trying to gather some information.

Court records, you need a subscription to access.

Property records, based on your posting, apparently varies by county because in Fairfax County I can access property records and owner addresses (unless the owner specifically requested to have that info withheld).
GenoS (Florida)
Posts: 4,276
Posted:
Thanks, Tim. I know court records are not usually freely available online anywhere. Maybe I was looking on the wrong site as regards Virginia.

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