How Lot Owners votes counted

Started by HaroldE2 • 15 replies • 1342 views

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HaroldE2 (Texas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Our Texas deed restrictions say that changes may be made based on "majority of lot owners". I would like to understand how other HOAs count votes with this type of wording. I can imagine these options:
1> Vote granted to partial owners. If ownership has passed to children, one lot might have 6 owners and another bought by a single adult might have one owner. So one lot might get 6 votes and another 1 vote. This does not seem fair in any way.

2> "Owners" understood to mean unified owners such that all owners of one lot get one vote in unity.

Does this also mean that we need to see a deed for each vote so that ownership is validated?

If only one spouse appears on the deed, does the other spouse not get a vote?

PaininyourA
Posts: 215

Posted:

One Lot = One Vote

Only deeded OWNERS are MEMBERS eligible to cast said ballot.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

1. In the case of multi or corporate ownership, one person must be designated as the voter.

2. If only one spouse on the deed, they are the voter. You have the name of the owner and unless someone objects then just let them vote. No need to check deeds.

We had a divorcing couple (both on the deed) show up at our Annual Meeting each claiming they were the voter. We asked them to go outside and settle who was coming back in as the voter. Neither returned.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

I agree with Pain & John. In our HOA, our letter that goes out with ballots explains only one vote per lot and no fractionalized voting.

DouglasK1 (Florida)
Posts: 2,046

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HaroldE2 on 11/20/2017 8:31 AM
Our Texas deed restrictions say that changes may be made based on "majority of lot owners".

Is that the exact verbiage. More typical would be "owners of a majority of lots". Do your deed restrictions have anything else about voting interests, or membership?

Escaped former treasurer and director of a self managed association.

CaseyC (Florida)
Posts: 5

Posted:

Thanks..

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

HaroldE2 from TX = CaseyC from FL ??

HaroldE2 (Texas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

Our verbiage is "majority of lot owners". Unfortunately in Texas we are told that this means a lot with 2 spouses on the deed gets two votes, a lot with one owner gets one vote. If a lot is inherited by 6 kids who are legal owners, that lot gets 6 votes. It is counter-intuitive and goes against all fairness concepts, but that is the law. We will vote to change it to "one vote per lot". It even makes voting hard because we have to research the number of owners in order to determine the number of votes needed for a majority.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Can you cite the TX law's exact language, Harold? If you're correct in your understanding of it, you probably cannot change your HOA language as TX law probably trumps it.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

I'd be curious of the exact language in the full passage (vs. one sentence out of the passage)

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HaroldE2 on 11/21/2017 9:10 AM
Our verbiage is "majority of lot owners". Unfortunately in Texas we are told that this means a lot with 2 spouses on the deed gets two votes, a lot with one owner gets one vote. If a lot is inherited by 6 kids who are legal owners, that lot gets 6 votes. It is counter-intuitive and goes against all fairness concepts, but that is the law. We will vote to change it to "one vote per lot". It even makes voting hard because we have to research the number of owners in order to determine the number of votes needed for a majority.

Who is telling you this?

HaroldE2 (Texas)
Posts: 3

Posted:

In response to requests for more detail:
1> Our deed restrictions say, “Any such alteration, revision or modification shall be signed by a majority of the then record lot owners”
2> Since our deed restrictions provide a procedure to amend, Texas law requires that the procedure must be followed or the amendment is invalid. We would need to follow the language of our current restrictions and not the Texas Property Code in this instance.
3> Since the deed restrictions say "one vote per owner" which is not the same as "one vote per lot", our lawyer has advised that we must count the votes accordingly if we do not want the vote challenged.

We have decided to give up and collect votes according to our lawyer's advice.

JohnC46 (South Carolina)
Posts: 14,265

Posted:

Harold

I understand your situation. That said, I have never heard of such a situation.

Does any one else on this chat ever heard of such?

My suggestion is get another legal opinion.

KerryL1 (California)
Posts: 14,550

Posted:

Agree with JohnC--sounds too strange to be true, but......another opinion is best.

TimB4 (Tennessee)
Posts: 21,062

Posted:

Typically there is language that identifies who a member is.
Typical language also specifies that multiple owners of a property must decide amongst themselves how to vote and only cast one vote.

It's logical to expect that a majority of lot owners would count each lot as one owner.
However, the language provided isn't written that way.

I agree on getting a second opinion.
The question shouldn't be what does this mean but along the lines of:

Based on how owners are defined and that one lot has one vote, does this language intend that a majority of owners represented by lots are required or does the language intend the actual number of names on the deeds?

JanetB2 (Colorado)
Posts: 4,219

Posted:

Quote:

Posted By HaroldE2 on 11/20/2017 8:31 AM
Our Texas deed restrictions say that changes may be made based on "majority of lot owners". I would like to understand how other HOAs count votes with this type of wording. I can imagine these options:

1> Vote granted to partial owners. If ownership has passed to children, one lot might have 6 owners and another bought by a single adult might have one owner. So one lot might get 6 votes and another 1 vote. This does not seem fair in any way. NO ... CCR's and State Laws generally allow one vote per property. If you are a single family subdivision that is generally one vote per lot. If you are a condo that is one vote per unit as designated by your CCR's.

2> "Owners" understood to mean unified owners such that all owners of one lot get one vote in unity. YES ... with regards to each "unit" as defined by your documents and State Laws.

Does this also mean that we need to see a deed for each vote so that ownership is validated? The HOA should before every annual meeting make sure they have a list of all UNITS and who are the Owners as per your County Record documents. If you are a small HOA everybody knows their neighbors. If you are a very large HOA you can go to your County Assessor website and type in the address which will in most areas provide you with the names of the "Registered Owners" of the property.

If only one spouse appears on the deed, does the other spouse not get a vote? NO ... the two spouses must both agree to the vote if both present ... or if only one is present that one spouse can cast the vote.

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