Fines: Glass in Pool

Before you start fining, you need to get more information on this incident - being "fairly sure who brought the bottles in" is not good enough. Were the bottles strewn all over the pool area? Did you see bottles or glass shards in the pool itself? How was this reported and are there any witnesses who saw the renter bring in the bottles?

Since the alleged offender rents his/her home, you need to talk to the owner/landlord - did anyone complain to him/her? If so, what was the response? Have you sent a violation letter to the owner? What did you ask him/her to do to fix this (e.g. reimburse the Association for cleaning up the bottles)? If nothing happened or the owner told you to pound sand, you may want to talk to the Association attorney as to what your options are. Actually, you should have some idea on what that is because you should have a rules enforcement policy. If that policy doesn't mention fines, you won't be able to fine the owner after the fact.

If you don't have a rules enforcement policy, you need to get one immediately because that's when the fining policy should go. To do that, you'll need to check your documents to see if the Board has the authority to assess fines and it wouldn't hurt to check with the Association attorney to see if you can do it, if your documents don't address the issue at all.

Assuming you're able to fine, you will then need to develop a policy on how much to assess, when fines kick in, appeal rights, etc. Personally, I think fines should be limited to situations where the common area has been damaged. And when it comes to people renting their homes, the policy should also state that the homeowner will ultimately be held responsible since the tenant's lease is with him/her, not the association.

When the rules enforcement policy is established or updated to address fines, you will need an effective date and then notify all the homeowners accordingly. In fact, while you're establishing policy, it wouldn't hurt to get the homeowner's input on whether it's necessary or if there are areas where people need to be hammered as opposed to others.

So - fix the situation with this homeowner first and then start working on a policy.

Does your HOA have rules against glass in the pool area, Alex?

Different question, does your HOA have any schedule of fines for any violations of any of your rules?

Even if you do have a fine schedule, as Sheila notes, you'd not be able to fine the Owner without witnesses.

But, Pain, I wonder if an HOA can "pass along" the costs of cleanup or repair. We can, per our documents, but what if there's nothing is writing in the HOA's docs that permits such an assessment against the Owner?

It seems I've asked Alex on a different thread if they have anything in writing that allows them to fine, and he doesn't reply. I assume because his HOA has nothing. If that's so, he should follow Sheila's advice. OK state laws may matter too re: fining.

I like the idea of a pool closure to get all residents' attention. This could be really effective in these cases where the HOA has no monitors via staff or cameras.

Here, anyone bringing glass to the pool is very rare--maybe 1-2x a year. They are reported or seen on camera and a security officer goes to the pool and asks the violators to remove the item from the table in the pool area. The violators always comply-usually are ignorant-and don't repeat the offense.

But I think in Alex's case, there are no cameras or security, which makes enforcement more difficult. He comes to us every so often usually with pool-related issues and then he disappears when we ask him questions. My guess is for some reason he's unable to convince his board that they need written rules and a fine schedule. And, of course, witnesses. We'll see what he does this time.

And should be posted.

Just skimmed the many, pages, Pain, and seems to have missed anything about glass containers. Page#, please?

A few do seem to be suitable for posting an OK or Alex's municipality may require it. The annual Fire Marshall inspection here at our condo includes makes sure our pool signs meet code.

Do you have any pool rules signs, Alex? What do they say?

I cannot find any type of fine that is supposed to be assessed... I cannot find any law(at the level of the HOA) that states glass is not to be brought into the pool area.

Alex, see Pain's above state law, p. 11 2 (e) that prohibits glass containers. Note that the law includes condominiums.

What rules do you hav posted at your HOA pool now, Alex?

Yes, Alex, an HOA attorney should be able to help you write a fining schedule that your board can approve. You still need to know who the violators are, though.

Another important point is that if... a person, Mr. Jones reported that Mr. Smith brought glass into the pool, Mr. Jones would break out the windows or something as retaliation to Mr. Jones.... One gal did this and her vehicle window was broken out.

Which is why if you have proof such as pictures showing and proving the violations ... nobody needs to know who turned in the information. The BOD should keep this information confidential. It is more difficult when you have he said / she said issues ... and why these should be avoided if at all possible.

You develop fines by having a set of Rules and Regulations developed by the BOD with the fines for breaking any such regulation noted. You keep in mind that any such Rules & Regulations along with any fines must pass any "reasonable" court test. You then supply every Owner with a copy ... then you ENFORCE! However, you need to make sure you have ABSOLUTE PROOF regarding any violations before you can fine or go after any owner. There should be no he said / she said. A security video system or an owner cell phone picture noting violations ... is priceless ... and proof beyond reasonable doubt.