Preventative Plumbing Maintenance

We don't have your documents or the invoices, so we can't say yea or nay. We aren't attorneys anyway, so prepare to sit down with your own attorney to see what your options are.

Before you get to that point (and you probably will), start with reviewing the CCRs to see what it says about plumbing (as a board member you should already know who's responsible for plumbing anyway). If you don't know ANYTHING about plumbing problems at this unit or the "other" units, you should request an executive session to hash all this out. What exactly is the problem, where are the invoices related to the problems, who talked to the plumber - and if things were decided at a "special board meeting," why weren't you invited or told about any of this?

This looks a lot like you vs. your colleagues, so if they stonewall you, you may have no other choice but to expose all this to the rest of the community, as the homeowners ultimately decide who's on the board and should know what's going on and why. Unfortunately, sorting all this out might not happen overnight and it may get very ugly, so be prepared to go it alone (which may or may not mean you'll have to resign so you'll have the freedom to say what you need to). Good luck to you

Sheila, why are you suggesting an executive session for this discussion? It does not seem to me a discussion about the plumbing, repairs, and preventative maintenance fits the criteria for an executive session.

You all missed the point. First, I was aware of the meeting, but couldn't attend. Second, all I'm asking is if replacement plumbing (both hot and cold copper lines replaced with PEX) is the financial responsibility of the HOA. I AM aware that anything within the walls is our responsibility, but I always assumed that was for emergency repairs (leaks, cracked pipes, etc.). Again, my question: Is additional non-emergency plumbing work the HOA financial responsibility or that of the townhome owner?

HOWEVER

copper 'likes' alkaline water 6.5-7.0 pH

some copper was imported and of inferior / uneven wall thickness

many installations are 'undersized' resulting in too high velocity which 'wire draws' the walls

Copper requires a 'gold standard' for installation AND suitable 'water chemistry' AND type 'L' as a 'good practice' (not merely 'thinwall' code compliant type 'M')

When pinholes (plural) begin they are likely to never stop forming.

There is a point at which repiping as much as you can becomes prudent especially when the wall is already open.

eg. a pinhole in the kitchen ceiling - open 'er up and repipe the ceiling

retired master plumber from NYC

Your governing documents probably state that the association as a whole owns the piping, wiring etc, so fixing the pinhole leaks now will save you in headaches
down the road. So YES you and the rest of the BOD have a duty to fix this. This sounds like a repair that an individual owner is not responsible for

PEX is much easier to replace and less invasive. PEX only involves small fist sized holes to replace copper lines, replacing copper lines requires a 1'x 8'opening in the drywall.
That is an expense that you don't want.

By any chance is the current piping polybutylene? If so, it is notorious for failing spontaneously and causing significant property damage. Google on the subject. I have experience with this in a neighborhood of stand-alone homes built in the 1990s. Folks were having spontaneous failures of the piping so often that the neighborhood was well known to local plumbers. If I were on the board, I would first check with the HOA attorney. I think it is likely the attorney would advise commencing a plan of replacing it all, at the expense of the HOA, before further leaks begin; damage to owners' property results in claims against the condo; and so on.

I think Kitec is different from polybutylene. E.g. see https://www.carsondunlop.com/home-inspection-services/the-story-of-kitec-plumbing/

What "maintenance" is required of the coated copper pipe? Not trying to derail the thread, I just always thought it was a one and done thing.

YES ... If your documents as you have noted it is HOA responsibility ... the HOA is responsible to maintain and improve common area property even if it is non-emergency. Another example would be the HOA has a reserve fund to replace the roofs every 25-30 years depending on supposed shingle life span. So with your question or scenario you would suggest they would not be responsible for properly replacing roofs in a timely manner to avoid property damage and should wait until it became an emergency and already leaking??? You are potentially facing the same issue with your plumbing.

What Causes Copper Pipe to Leak?
(pipe failure)

Contrary to popular belief copper water piping doesn't last forever. In its original design criteria, copper piping was projected to last for 20-25 years, but failure can often occur in as little as two years due to water chemistry.

Changes in water chemistry, unrelated to water quality, have caused the water to become aggressive towards the copper piping.

Copper is the most widely used material for plumbing systems because of its ease of use, resistance to corrosion, and resistance to permeation by liquids and gases, which may be sources of corrosion and contamination.

Copper piping has been used for domestic water supply for over 50 years. Since 1963, over 5.3 million miles of copper plumbing tube has been installed in about 80 percent of all U.S. buildings.

Hot or warm spots in the floor, soaked carpeting, ceilings or walls and abnormally high water bills are signs of failing copper pipes.

Pinhole Leaks
The State of Maryland Task Force to Study Pinhole Leaks in Copper Plumbing defines a copper pinhole leak as "the perforation of copper tube, pipe or fittings used for domestic water distribution as the result of pitting corrosion initiated on the interior/waterside surface with the subsequent leakage of water."

Internal pitting corrosion of copper pipes is a rare but costly problem that leads to the formation of pinhole leaks. Although the factors that cause this problem are mostly unknown, it is well recognized that the chemistry of the water traveling through the pipes can influence the formation and propagation of pits.

A pinhole leak is a final breakthrough event of the progressive attack of pitting corrosion on copper water plumbing. A copper water plumbing system can be in a condition of having significant damage by pitting corrosion, but not have pinhole leaks. The challenge is how to discover pitting corrosion before pinhole leaks develop.

Although pinhole leaks could happen in any copper pipe or tube within a house, the Washington Suburban Sanitary Commission (WSSC) reported that the majority of pinhole leaks that their customers had reported were in cold-water, horizontal copper piping. Most of the leaks were in older homes, and 80 percent of the reports involved homes built prior to 1970.

There is no comprehensive source of information on the occurrence of pinhole leaks. Many utilities and water authorities have collected thousands of reports, submitted voluntarily by residents who have experienced pinhole leaks. Often, homeowners consider pinhole leaks as a plumbing problem, and do not report them to their water utility.

Copper (Pitting) Corrosion
There are many forms of corrosion, but pitting corrosion is most likely to culminate in pinhole leaks in copper plumbing.

Pitting corrosion is the non-uniform localized attack of the wall of copper tube, pipe, or fittings initiated on the inside surface of copper water pipes. Usually only small areas of the metal surface are attacked.

Pitting corrosion can be classified into three types:

Type I
cause: Hard Water
Type I pitting is associated with hard or moderately hard waters with a pH between 7 and 7.8, and it is most likely to occur in cold water. The pitting is deep and narrow, and results in pipe failure.

Type II
cause: Soft Water
Type II pitting occurs only in certain soft waters, with a pH below 7.2 and occurs rarely in temperatures below 140° F. The pitting that occurs is narrower than in Type I, but still results in pipe failure.

Type III
cause: Cold, Soft Water High PH
Type III pitting occurs in cold soft waters having a pH above 8.0. It is a more generalized form of pitting, which tends to be wide and shallow and results in blue water, byproduct releases, or pipe blockage.

Water Velocity
When copper tubing is installed that is too small in diameter for the pressure and flow available, the resulting high flow rates can erode the protective coating creating areas of bare, unprotected copper. This effect can result in a high rate of corrosion wherever the protective coating is eroded.

The greatest effect of velocity occurs where the water is forced to change flow direction, such as at elbows and tees, but excessive water flow rates can be damaging to the entire plumbing system.

Repair Options
Currently, homeowners have several options from which to choose. However, none of the options address the root cause of the problem; they simply try to correct the symptoms. Most of the options are also costly. These options include:
•Fixing the leak by application of external solder

•Replacing a small or larger section of tube

•Re-plumbing the entire house
(However, even a complete re-plumb with new copper tubing does not guarantee that the problem will not recur after a period of time.)

•Re-plumbing and replacing copper with PVC or CPVC

•Coat the inside of existing pipes with epoxy

•Purchasing potential cures (of questionable value), such as magnets

What about snaking PEX through the existing, leaking copper pipes? I guess the available diameters compared to the existing copper pipe diameter would be a factor. And any elbows would be hard to navigate.

Just spitballing. We have about 8 homes built ca 1990 that have had leaks in copper pipes that are in the concrete foundation slabs. Talk about a pain in the A. Jackhammering to find the leak was tried in one home and I'm not sure of the outcome. In others, additional piping was installed, some of it through a conduit built on the exterior of the home that takes the water up into the ceiling/attic space where it then branches off and heads down to the bathrooms from above. It's unsightly and also a messy project, but not as expensive as the jackhammer route. I guess I'm asking if there are any palatable solutions for in-slab repair.

Good stuff, Pain. Meter at 0%